Friday:
last 2 times the g360 was rebuilt, i wasn't able to find an NV5600 within a reasonable distance and/or price. i actually found and lined up 2 on Friday for Saturday pick up. TWO! i talked to some rebuilders and everything is still available for the 5600, but why not have a spare? they are a pain to find whole and i will have 2 trucks running them.

now i just have to get the whole rig home. i start playing with it in the parking lot and 1st is FUBAR. slightly rolling down hill, just the lightest clutch pressure, it'll roll over a little and pop out. doesn't matter how little load, it won't make 1 full revolution without popping out. something is bent or broken or both in there now ... but the rest was fine. drove home great in 2nd and up.

Saturday:
first one was about 2h away. i picked it up and seams like a great trans, case is just a little crusty on the outside but will clean up nice. dude was great, easy pick-up, done. the 2nd was another 2h drive, but only 3h from home. scheduled 7-8pm pickup after whatever he was doing, i got to a gas station about 6:30 to chill. 8:30 rolls around, no-call, no-show, and i'm driving the 3h back home with only 1 trans. ghosted. next morning he ties to convince me to drive the 6h round trip again. no, gfy.

1st was bare, 2nd was a "swap kit", so i'll keep an eye out for another reasonable bare trans now. i also find it funny that on thrusday i picked up and installed the new re-tubed front drive shaft. now it's gota get longer again.

https://i.imgur.com/bHOqTGj.jpg

You have the Three Musketeers of projects :p

16 cylinders of mechanically injected diesel fury!

Let's ride :rock:

while i'm waiting on TDI electronics to come in, i started tinkering with things that didn't take my truck out of commission.

had one front turn signal that the socket went bad, the ground strap broke off so i had to solder on a new one. easy enough. also my TruckLite LEDs were having issues, one wasn't working in low beam. turns out it's the light side connector! :james: easy enough fix though. while in there, they were HORRIBLY adjusted and i ran them back to a way better spot. if on one flashes me i might move them up again too.

next tackled the head liner. wasn't a huge need, but no more foam dusting on me is a huge win. the PO pulled the fabric so it was just the nasty left behind. at least he had good enough sense to leave the backer! just cleaned up the inside a TON seeing the finished surface, and i love the custom look. i have enough material left over to do the soft inserts on the door panels with the same stuff. quilted black vinyl from amazon.

also ordered new black visors, and new black carpet. the shifter hole will move back like 8" with the 6spd, so i'll can just cut it where i need it now. plus clean and not worn. the idea is to make all soft surfaces black, and leave all the plastic trim gray. that means at some point i also need new seats, the wife wishes that was higher on the priority list too.

https://i.imgur.com/wYGJ5jo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JFFbW3G.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kvhZuTH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1BKtj7q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lb8e4jR.jpg

That is F'n sexxxxxy!!!!!

Two headliners in one week, you were busy!!!

getting myself set up for the big winter overhaul. i'm waiting on parts to get the TDI-XJ on the road before i can tear things apart on this truck, should make a huge difference. wish me luck!

NV5600 swap ... it's amazing what a little time and some leftover rattle can can do. aerosol overhaul ftw. i'll clock the np205 down slightly to help the front drive shaft angles. along with the longer trans that should make a HUGE difference up there. i'll have to make a whole new crossmember from scratch to clear everything, but i'm betting i'll still be similar or higher belly. that obviously requires a new clutch, master cyl, starter, and why not a short throw shifter as well. clutch is a dual disk from Valair.

Interior ... the trans requires i cut a new hole for the shifter, so good time for new carpet. i got black to match the headliner, all soft materials will be black and plastic will be factory grey. new black visors, and new seats too. Audi S5 full power/heat in black leather. they are thin enough i believe i can just adapt them right on top of the factory pedestals and maybe even get lower. should add seat adjustments to the passenger side while keeping the factory flip-fwd for rear access. hopefully. while the whole thing is apart, it's also going to get some Lizard Skin sound control sprayed in there too.

Suspension ... the rear leaves have 1" of droop if you jack up the truck by the hitch. it's basically a hard-tale and rides like junk currently. i have 64" '98 GM 1500 3" lift leaves and new hangers for the back. will do a shackle flip and hopefully also eliminate the factory 4" block back there. the trailer load air bags will need re-mounted and more than make up for the load capacity of the lighter spring. along with them, i'll have to re-mount the traction bars down below the axle to keep my mount separation and keep them functional. the front has an issue with the rear eye hitting the frame since the lift spring is longer. i'm going to swap out for a slightly longer shackle, and remove the smallest leaf to soften things up and bring the height back down. once i have a final resting height, i can rework the front hanger if needed for caster/pinion angle or height adjustments.

fuel tank ... while it's under the knife, i'm going to remove the custom aux tank currently where the spare tire should be. i hope to get this back up and functional as either a dual tank, or transfer tank. haven't decided yet.

https://i.imgur.com/9orzsPp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JS6WDXP.jpg

That transmission is huge!

Make sure to read the fine print on your clutch. PJ went through this with an aftermarket one for his dually recently...apparently they are not spec'd for engine braking, especially with a trailer, and are prone to premature failure.

I was not aware of that, and was definitely surprised by it.

Maybe you're aware of it already, in which case, carry on. Wanted to warn in case you weren't though.

what failed?

i started researching it cuz i hadn't heard that. as usual there's 1001 different guesses and web-driver unalienable rules ... but little actual knowledge.

From what I understand it wipes out the friction disc(s). They are designed to hold positive torque from the engine, not negative torque from the drivetrain. If I recall correctly its something related to the angle that the friction zones sit at with respect to the flywheel and the intermediate disc.

More info from PJ

that sounds ridiculous ... the flywheel and mid plate are solid, the clutch frictions/rivets are all symmetrical. none of that cares what direction the torque happens in. even the disc hub springs can be symmetrical (maybe designed to not be?) ... the only part not is the helical cut of the transmission gears.

i read lots of ppl say that engine braking with a heavy loads is fine, but downshifting and letting the transmission speed up the engine is CATESTROPHIC TORTURE. both are the same torque direction! the engine is freewheeling if the trans is spinning it up, that's basically no load so the only possible difference are torque harmonics. maybe that bounces in the clutch vs a heavy load staying tight? or are they talking about downshifting while the engine brake is engaged? but again, if the hub springs are symmetrical, that's no difference that slipping the clutch with your foot on the throttle to accelerate.

the other big change from a factory to aftermarket is ditching the dual mass flywheel on newer trucks. i guess the g56 has much more of an issue with this, and why it received the dual mass from the factory.

i'm going to keep reading on it, but so far i get the vibe that the aftermarket included a line in their fine print to limit liability and the zealots took it as gospel with internet fueled terror.

I thought the friction plates are directional / not reversible? Wouldn't that indicate that there might be something to it?

Is it me or does a website for Valair itself straight up not exist? It would be worth a call to their tech line or something.

we are both well into guessing at this point too ... there's not just info and a LOT of web-mechanics.

i'll agree it's worth a call to valair and SB to get their actual take, but neither present anything i can find on the subject. leads me to believe it's less of an issue.

Do you have the clutch already? If it isn't mentioned in their warranty or instructional documentation then I'd agree.

South Bend's official answer:

basically it's easier to change the brakes, use them.

i can't see engine braking and downshifting being any different on the 'damping portion'

only referance i can find from Valair in their entire install, faq, Do/Don't info.

i did see on the SB info where they said it might be more difficult to get into gear because the dual discs are 3x heavier than the factory clutch. synchro's have to work WAY harder. good reason to minimize synchro use with less shifts or rev matching ... also many many DEMAND any diesel manual be driven that way like it's a commandment.

thou shalt carry a 17mm box wrench
thou shalt learn to drive non-synchronized transmissions and rev match or else thou arest thine douche-nozel

so i got to thinking the other day about my low end power issue ... it might not just be from super lag turbo's. i really need to verify where they set the timing, and with the rest of the build being very dyno number oriented, i bet it's way too high.

Now, the question would be how does that info above compare to an OEM clutch and the recommendations in an owner's manual? :dunno:. Genuinely curious as I've seen OEM clutches last a long time.

I can't see ever wanting to haul a loaded trailer without engine braking, especially on hills. Eff that noise.

What is your experience with a 12v?

They are gutless in OEM form.

I can't imagine how they would be before turbo spool in a compound application. Are both your turbos larger than the stock 12v unit?

yup, at that point a big block gasser is starting to be in consideration

ya know ... i was thinking the same and was somewhat worried about that. i actually have an exhaust brake on my bench that i got for the 55, but will be installing on Hank eventually. i've not towed a ton, but multiple trips with the enclosed loaded with the YJ and i've never thought i was anywhere near the edge without one. PA turnpike mountains, up n down the goat paths getting to the trails, all reasonable. the enclosed does have pretty good brakes though.

I’ve had a bad experience with Valair (Sp?) clutches. We put one in a customer truck, they picked the dual disc performance clutch. He used it to tow trailers etc and it sucked there was zero clutch slip, just grab and go. We swapped it out for there daily driver dual disc and while it was better it still wasn’t something I’d want in a truck that I pulled a trailer with. That is my only experience with them and it was a bad one with wrong parts selected so take it with a grain of salt.

yeah, lots of ppl can't deal with a tight clutch. i think it's weird that Valair specs the towing or daily dual disc for even an otherwise stock truck when towing, just not enough torque to slip it. on the other hand, i love a tight clutch and everything i own gets a ceramic puck set up. hank with 10,000lbs in tow can easily make RPM thru the current SB daily dual while letting it out. preference vs horse-torques vs driver preference

it has begun! G360 is out, i am now on the "always swap it out" bandwagon. sure it can be fixed, but parts aren't available any more. she's being sold for parts if anyone wants it. check out the breakage though, how do you explode a synchro collar!?!? that would explain why i suddenly had zero synchro in 2nd :james: only thing i can figure is it was damaged when the rear input bearing exploded and i missed the cracks. would also explain the non-engagement in the 1st rebuild.

i was going to give my buddy the clutch since it was a SB dual disc with life left on the frictions ... but it would seam that's not really going to work. the dampers are old enough they have become brittle and are shattering. one is completely missing from the other disc. the hot spots have also been there long enough to be smooth :LOL:

https://i.imgur.com/LpbCs4r.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eeAV7By.jpg

so into the actual 5600 swap. after riding with a buddy who had a 5600 truck, I'm starting to get excited for this.

first things first, new engine mounts to make sure the engine is in the right place before i build a trans mount. obviously needed anyways though, engine picked up almost 1/2". while things were apart i also did a rear main seal.

got the 2ng gen trans adapter on there easy enough, but the 2nd gen starter does hit the frame. now i have the back of the engine jacked up n held higher at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I'll need to add some clearance in there. new Valair street dual disc, everything about it just seams better than the SB. design, not old vs new.

didn't get a picture, but beat the pinch seam up flat to the body for bell clearance.

i was pretty sure the 5600 was longer from my research, but it's not all that different. also excited to be able to use the clocking ring now that I'm making a crossmember and get the front shaft angles way better. i bet the bell height is still the same or better :LOL:

nv5600 vs G360:
(from bell housing, just realizing i didn't measure the trans adapter thickness)
-5.5" longer with clocking ring (5-1/8" longer without)
-shifter is only 2.25" further back

*EDIT: trans adapters ... 1.125" longer for the 2nd gen. (2nd Gen: 2-3/8" ; 1st Gen: 1-1/4")

so this means my t-case actually moves back 6-5/8". The shifter moves back 3-3/8"

https://i.imgur.com/wJPkDhn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GdBWYHF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1WSBHnj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SVqsY3V.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OhYupsI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/M08zO1k.jpg

Nice progress so far. What do you have for a trans jack?

right now i have a HF trans jack adapter welded onto an old floor jack ... but i'm seriously considering getting a new HF wide base jack for this heavy beast.

I’d say this is the transmission that should be in a 12 valve with compound turbos. I wouldn’t trust anything besides an NV5600 or a ZF6. I guess the NV4500 would work, but that pesky 5th gear issue is just a bummer.

I wish the ZF-6 would have been used across the board. Its very rare that I hear about any issues with that transmission.

Until this thread I honestly didn't know you could still get parts for the NV5600. It went out of use (in the Dodge trucks anyway) 20 years ago!

[QUOTE=Hoofmann;83743]I

[QUOTE=Hoofmann;83743]Id say this is the transmission that should be in a 12 valve with compound turbos. I wouldn

the 4500 and the G360 that just came out are basically equal in strength, Dodge only switched cuz the 4500 is cheaper to make. the 4500 however still has all the parts to buy.

and the 5th gear nut is an easy fix with the locks available now.

agreed, i think the ZF6 would be just a TINY bit better of a trans than the 5600.

there are lots of guys who use the 5600 for crazy power applications cuz the aluminum case of the G56 deflects too much. They even sell an exoskeleton stiffener!

http://lazarsmith.com/sitebuilder/im...ge-308x495.jpg

no clue why, but it's the ' that makes the quotes fail ... i had to change "I'd" to Id and wouldn't to wouldnt in the quote before it would work.

so trans adapters ... 1.125" longer for the 2nd gen.

2nd Gen: 2-3/8"
1st Gen: 1-1/4"

so this means my t-case actually moves back 6-5/8"
The shifter moves back 3-3/8"

first things things first, making the NP205 bolt to the NV5600. most ppl just remove the rear seal from the 5600 and let the void between trans and t-case fill with fluid. we can do better.

i put a rag over the 205 input and tapped the input collar over it to hold steady. then had the wife run the 205 output with a drill so that i could grind the end of the collar to 2.0" like a fancy little lathe. polished it a bit, and she slips right in.

my only concern is the striations from the grinder that are still there after polishing are going the wrong direction to wipe fluid back into the case. they might actually pull fluid thru the seal. i guess we'll find out, and i can have a machinist do the other side of the collar if needed.

https://i.imgur.com/SPlV19W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nfLPCKb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TTJhl1P.jpg

next i got distracted and made a shift knob adapter. M10x1.5 to 1/2-13. this puts the EATON shifter on my 5600 short-shift stick, and gives me 2 air switches on the knob. one is for exhaust brake for sure, but not sure on the 2nd. front locker? air horn?

https://i.imgur.com/J24GK70.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8I2yA3e.jpg

now onto the good stuff! first trans stab complete and it looks like everything is going to fit really nice! new trans jack from HF is also really good. dual axis tilt on the head, goes higher and lower than my welded junk i had been using, nice stable base, the damn thing even weighs more than the 5spd did. all win. plus now i can cut the adapter off the other and have a standard floor jack back.

started by finding the CG of the 5600/205 for best placement on the jack. worked out nice at the seam in the rear case. made manipulation under the truck way easier having that set middle of the jack pad. plus now i can pull/stab it all together and not have to pull the 205 under the truck. that thing is heavy enough to require the trans jack by itself. hell, i can even leave the t-case shifters on while pulling it now.

before the stabbing i started a base for the 205 twin stick shifters, just waiting on the shifter kit to start modifying those parts onto my bracket. was expected Friday, but it appears to be lost now ... at least i could finish the rest easy enough in the truck while this bracket really needed done on the bench.

LIFT YOUR TRUCK! cuz then you can slid the trans under without jacking it up :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/V2FBVRI.jpg
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