'55 Chevy 3800 Cummins

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

Do you cinch them up to proper tightness when using the full harness? That's the part that sucks to me...otherwise what good are they doing

"proper tightness" or not doing any good?? really? you could have visible slack, i contend that holding both shoulders will still keep you more secure than any 3pt could ever hope to.

if you are racing and could hit the wall at 200mph flipping 10x thru the air, yeah, wrench that sh!t down crazy-tight. if you are driving thru town on your way to Walmart, what tightness would you put a basic lap belt at? shoulder belts are similar without slack, but still allow you to breath normally.

[xj_man_646]

IDK how it does it, but the automatic seat belt locks engage really quickly in my F250 based on changes in acceleration in the vehicle (which was super annoying when I had a constant vibration caused by sh1tty tires). To the point where I had a hard time reaching anything . I'll agree that in most cases they're slack, so your point is valid, though there is always some form of tension on the 3-point belts to keep them taught and against your body so you can't slip out of them easily or by accident.

[6DoF]

hot pipe in paint, fully wrapped, and installed with the s475. i really like the one boot cold side connection. turbo oil lines are ordered, so i really need to get on mounting that charge cooler!

also, "hood stack" pic for James

[xj_man_646]

Looking good. Keep the hood stack

[nblehm]

I got rid of the the harnesses in my J10 and went back to 3 points. I can tell you I wear my seat belt more now then I did with the harnesses. As Cobound would say, to each their own.


I have read the argument for not running harnesses in something without a cage is you dont want to be pinned up right if the roof gets crushed down.

[6DoF]

wrapped up the intake this weekend, that's officially sealed and tight. other than once the front clip is on i'll just need to figure out an air filter. so i figured what angle the intake stack needed to be, then in 3D i cut a model of 3.5" pipe and measured the arch length around the miter. i then made an ellipse of the same arch length that fit inside the intake mounting holes and had some plate cut. chopped some pipe, squished it, and I'm super happy with the transition.

i did add some weld bead around the top edge of the pipe to keep the coupler n clamp from slipping off.

i don't particularly like the look of the cooler on top of the engine. it's a nice compact packaging though, it's free space under the hood that isn't used for anything else, and the air path is really good. hard to argue with all that.

[6DoF]

then moved on to the down pipe where thing got close, but they fit! 4" down pipe snaked

even pre-added some sensor bungs if i ever want them.

[nblehm]

Exhaust looks good. Are you just painting with hi temp paint? I’m curious about having the stock manifold on my flat fender ceramic coated.

Is that air cooler air to water?

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by nblehm

Exhaust looks good. Are you just painting with hi temp paint? Im curious about having the stock manifold on my flat fender ceramic coated.

Is that air cooler air to water?

it's just high-temp paint to seal the welds. i've had them rust bad enough quick enough before, and this stuff seams to really help the whole system last way longer. the TJ's entire system is still mostly black after over 10 years.
wrapping it also doesn't seam to hurt, this will get wrapped the whole way back to keep heat out of the cab.

Air to water, yup. it'll get water plumbed to one of the 2 radiators in the back. lots of skeptical ppl on the air-to-water deal

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by 6DoF

Air to water, yup. it'll get water plumbed to one of the 2 radiators in the back. lots of skeptical ppl on the air-to-water deal

What's to be skeptical about? As long as it's sized sufficiently for the air volume and temperatures the concept itself is well proven, lots of cars run air to water these days.

I do see potential heat soak concerns with the mounting location, but even that can be offset if it becomes an issue. I'm assuming a traditional front mount intercooler was space constrained?

The truck is coming along nicely, I'm excited to see it starting to come together. Hopefully it's time for some body panels soon!

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by MBood82

What's to be skeptical about? As long as it's sized sufficiently for the air volume and temperatures the concept itself is well proven, lots of cars run air to water these days.

I do see potential heat soak concerns with the mounting location, but even that can be offset if it becomes an issue. I'm assuming a traditional front mount intercooler was space constrained?

The truck is coming along nicely, I'm excited to see it starting to come together. Hopefully it's time for some body panels soon!

there's soooo many ppl skeptical about the water to air! from ppl running engine coolant thru the cooler to poor water cooling that lets it heat soak, etc. i guess we'll see hopefully soon enough. i specifically sized the radiator to be slightly bigger than the core of the charge cooler, in theory the system should be able to ditch more heat than it can take in. plus at some point it'll also have an aluminum reservoir in the bed that would shed even more heat.

[xj_man_646]

Is it being plumbed into the engine cooling circuit? If so, I'd do a dedicated circuit for the air to water. You'd definitely want it cooling the charge below where the engine would be running.

Big air to air is more suitable for keeping temps in check in situations such as hauling up a long grade. YMMV though.

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

Is it being plumbed into the engine cooling circuit? If so, I'd do a dedicated circuit for the air to water. You'd definitely want it cooling the charge below where the engine would be running.

Big air to air is more suitable for keeping temps in check in situations such as hauling up a long grade. YMMV though.

it's not part of the engine cooling! ... no one should be using engine coolant for a water-to-air in any application except maybe sub-arctic. this comes up all the time on every forum and i have no clue where anyone get the idea from.

from now on i'm calling them water chillers instead of radiators ... maybe that'll help.

as for air-to-air vs water-to-air for heavy extended loading, either can suffer or either can be engineered to provide more than enough cooling capacity. the decision mostly comes down to space, complexity, and costs to pick one or the other. most ppl use some tiny water chiller due to space/location issues, or only an ice box reservoir for drag racing. an ice box will heat soak real quick.

i'm very space limited in the nose of the 55 from the long engine, and lowered chassis, plus getting the '78 steering in there. the 55 radiator is notably smaller than that of a 2nd gen ram to start with. by removing the air-to-air from in front of it, it's getting much cooler air to start with, should be no issue. water-to-air is more complex and more cost, but allows me to use space i have above the engine and under the bed. the key is ... did i size and place the components correctly to never heat soak. my water chiller should have more surface area than the charge cooler.

[MBood82]

My air to water experience is fairly limited to the DSM platform, I have had numerous friends run it successfully. Their biggest issues typically related to keeping the coolant side sealed as the length and complexity of the lines were prone to leakage. They simply work when done right.

Your charge cooler looks to be at twice the size of what my DSM friends ran, so that tracks given the nearly 3x displacement increase and higher boost pressures being seen.

Most aftermarket charge coolers I've seen mounted to the side however, not directly above the engine. I assume that diesel will throw off a good amount of heat, especially with the turbos inches away, but you do appear to be liberally applying insulation that should help offset.

Given factory supercharged applications like the Hellcat and ZR1 included air to water intercoolers (charge coolers) are integral into the supercharger, even closer to the heat of the engine block, I'm sure you wouldn't be the first engineer combatting ambient temperature impacts on the charge cooler design.

I'm very interested to see how it works out, how close you get to target temps. Will you have probe(s) to monitor while driving?

[xj_man_646]

Originally Posted by 6DoF

from now on i'm calling them water chillers instead of radiators ... maybe that'll help.

Just refer to it / them as the heat exchanger(s) for the charge air cooler. Add that they're isolated from the engine cooling circuit if you must.

Originally Posted by MBood82

Given factory supercharged applications like the Hellcat and ZR1 included air to water intercoolers (charge coolers) are integral into the supercharger, even closer to the heat of the engine block, I'm sure you wouldn't be the first engineer combatting ambient temperature impacts on the charge cooler design.

They're also integrated into the intake manifold, so the cooled charge basically goes right to the engine. Matt's distance from turbo to CAC to intake is very short. From that side of things, it should work nicely. Not a lot of people going the water to air method in the diesel world that I've seen (that said, I don't follow it much anymore either).

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by MBood82

My air to water experience is fairly limited to the DSM platform, I have had numerous friends run it successfully. Their biggest issues typically related to keeping the coolant side sealed as the length and complexity of the lines were prone to leakage. They simply work when done right.

Your charge cooler looks to be at twice the size of what my DSM friends ran, so that tracks given the nearly 3x displacement increase and higher boost pressures being seen.

Most aftermarket charge coolers I've seen mounted to the side however, not directly above the engine. I assume that diesel will throw off a good amount of heat, especially with the turbos inches away, but you do appear to be liberally applying insulation that should help offset.

Given factory supercharged applications like the Hellcat and ZR1 included air to water intercoolers (charge coolers) are integral into the supercharger, even closer to the heat of the engine block, I'm sure you wouldn't be the first engineer combatting ambient temperature impacts on the charge cooler design.

I'm very interested to see how it works out, how close you get to target temps. Will you have probe(s) to monitor while driving?

i keep thinking about scoops of some kinds in the hood. small details that make you looks twice, not something big n gaudy. was really thinking just one for the air filter to wash it with fresh air, but another to wash the cooler with fresh air wouldn't hurt.

i have a fit blanket for the s475, and still need to order one for the s362. i have some cut-to-shape blankets for the turbo adapter off the manifold and may also put more between the firewall and pipes. i hadn't thought about putting any under the cooler, but might make sense.

i also have 2 water chillers in the back, each is bigger than the core of this main charge cooler. the idea was to also have another water-to-air between the turbo's to help reduce temps even more ... but that's excessive for the boost levels i'll be running at the moment. can play that game later.

also at the moment i won't really have too many sensors, just enough to know if things are really going to hell or not. eventually after the barn is up and i have some cash again, i want to fully instrument and be able to data-log this thing to make is fawkin sing.

[xj_man_646]

A charge air cooler of any type, between the turbos in a compound setup, is something I've never seen anywhere. I think that would be a large expense of time and effort for marginal gains, if any.

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

Not a lot of people going the water to air method in the diesel world that I've seen

i think most of that is they are in bigger trucks with room to run a nice giant air-to-air easy n cheap like

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

A charge air cooler of any type, between the turbos in a compound setup, is something I've never seen anywhere. I think that would be a large expense of time and effort for marginal gains, if any.

the cooler charge will help the 2nd turbo efficiency, you are compressing cooler denser air. you also end up with less heat load for the main cooler to deal with.

Old Smokey F1 is the easy example to find. he had a water-to-air mid stage cooler, and the air-to-air final. he also had a MASSIVE rear mounted rad for the engine cooling, reverse of me. shame that truck got so wadded up again.

[6DoF]

door parts finally came!! it's officially "dry'd in"