High pinion 44 what should I do. - Page 2

nblehm · 10-05-2020, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

I would flip it. Super duty axles are cheaper and the 05+ axles are better than the KP60 in nearly every way. OEM 1550 shafts are neat.

Except the goofy lug pattern. The giant cast radius arm bracket and no where to put mounts on the drivers side. The unit bearings are super expensive. The hi steer arm thing.

From talking to the guy I thought this might be the 78-79 60 because that basically bolts into my j10. Its the later one with the diff more offset. Still for 600 I dont think I did too bad (unless i am super out of touch with the dana 60 market

)

xj_man_646 · 10-05-2020, 02:19 PM

The unit bearings can easily be re-drilled with a template which indexes off the stock studs (just one solution). I have never seen a failure of a unit bearing between the half a dozen or so people I know running that series of axle. The 05+ knuckles can also be machined for high steer IIRC. They can also be had for as little as $250.

nblehm · 10-05-2020, 03:00 PM

Oh I know there are solutions.

Now I am going to have to look at the 60 market. I didnt know superduty axles were so cheap.

6DoF · 10-05-2020, 04:15 PM

i've yet to see ANY modern axle i'd rather have. harder to screw with cuz they need special tools or technics to work on em, cost more in the long run if modding, plus i always worry about chinesium castings. if i needed more than a good ol king-pin i'd build something total custom. to anyone who doesn't like packing bearings, go take up knitting, haha.

$600 seams ok if the kings and bearings are salvageable, but on the high end for a real junkyard axle for me. you can always part it down for that though! a quick wire wheel n paint job gets things sold quick, hehe.

xj_man_646 · 10-06-2020, 10:26 AM

That's the thing...KP60 is not a modern axle by any measure anymore. What special tools do you need?

. Keep a junk yard set of axle shafts bolted to the UBH as spares and call it good. I'd rather deal with a sealed wheel bearing in a mud hole than tapered roller bearings as well. The fact that new axles undergo standardized testing for GVWR and such is also something to consider...castings on an 05+ d60 will be stronger than a 30 year old KP axle for sure. They're cheaper, stronger, turn sharper, and have OEM 1550 shafts available for a few hundred dollars. Show me the down side

. OEM Ford KP D60 knuckles are a known weak point anyway, so you need to almost always plan an upgrade there.

Nate, it is largely dependent on where you live. You-pull it yards in SE MI will sell 05+ D60s for a few hundred dollars all day long. One of my friends got one for $50 on a sale day.

Artec also has a ton of solutions available for the Superduty axles, as well as other companies out there. https://www.artecindustries.com/Ford-Superduty

nblehm · 10-06-2020, 10:47 AM

Maybe its just because it is what I am used to but I would still rather use a kp60

You do make solid points for the superduty axle. Anything on a new diesel is beef these days.

Facebook Market place around me cheapest 60 is a ball joint ford 60 from the 90s at 800, superduty 60 for 900 and a dodge 60 for 900. Should do alright on it worst case I went for a nice mountain drive on my way home from picking the 60 up.

xj_man_646 · 10-06-2020, 12:02 PM

I believe you could flip it for a SD 60 and be ahead. 99-04 were leaf sprung and are decent, 05+ were coils and is where the real beef starts. There are 5 options for an 05+ axle within 20 miles of me, for less than $400 on car-part

nblehm · 10-06-2020, 02:00 PM

I dont even know what I need a 60 for

Does my truck need one? Not really I did break the longside shafts and ujoints but i feel like that wont be the norm. I dont habe anything else for a crawler right now, so dont really need axles sitting around. Maybe a willys at some point but not for a few years. I will have to look more into the super duty stuff.

6DoF · 10-06-2020, 04:24 PM

worst case blast it clean, paint it nice, and make sure all the grease it clean ... you'll never loose money.

i can say i like the added weight down low in the YJ.

nblehm · 10-06-2020, 04:49 PM

I am thinking hard about 3 linking the front of the j10 with coilovers. Really want to make it more comfortable for trail wheeling. Only so many options with the spring over front and nearly flat springs as is. That said I dont really love rock crawling the j10. Hard to see out of because the hood is huge and square. That and I dont really want to cave any of the body panels in.

xj_man_646 · 10-07-2020, 10:26 AM

I've considered just starting to stash them and sell them to the lazy Jeep crowd. People out west are paying 1000 for them or more in some cases. If you took the time to add Jeep TJ/JK/JL axle mounts you could flip them for a killing.

nblehm · 10-07-2020, 10:44 AM

The land of no rust isnt good for used parts prices. Hell a 2004 tahoe probably still sells for 4-6k here. Makes ls motors still pretty expensive. No buying a rusted out truck for 500 bucks.

Hoofmann · 10-07-2020, 04:36 PM

A kingpin 60 is still the gold standard front end, in my opinion. The 2005+ super duty front ends are nice too and with weld on steering arms for high steer and OE 35 spline stubs, they have become a nice option. I don’t regret building my kingpin 60 but if I were to build another front end, I’d be looking for one of those 2005+ fronts for the simple fact that the U-joints are bigger and if you end up breaking the u-joints, you can fit a larger CV shaft than what you can fit in a kingpin.

Oh and PS - build a crawler around that KP60 so we can go crawling!

nblehm · 10-08-2020, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoofmann

Oh and PS - build a crawler around that KP60 so we can go crawling!

Its coming man. Might be a few years out but I have a goal set to get back into a crawler. J10 is fun but not the same. Your jeep wheelable?

xj_man_646 · 10-09-2020, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrath

I see no reason to run a 2005+ SD.

You're old and boring.

Why would you not want more strength for a cheaper price?

xj_man_646 · 10-09-2020, 03:01 PM

Stock for stock there is no question. Who doesn't upgrade to 35 spline outers at least on a KP 60?

The 05+ F250/350 axle will accept OEM 1550 shafts available for the F550 I believe. The large spread on the ball joints increases the strength, and they do not have the weak knuckles that the old Ford axles have. I believe they also have larger and thicker axle tubes.

The real fun begins once you start spending money. RCV makes a 'big bell' shaft that eliminates the lock out / drive flange component and engages the entire hub of the UBH...can't recall if this requires aftermarket knuckles or not.

Hoofmann · 10-09-2020, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nblehm

Its coming man. Might be a few years out but I have a goal set to get back into a crawler. J10 is fun but not the same. Your jeep wheelable?

It’s been back and forth between ready and not all summer. I’m tearing out the 14 bolt spool this weekend and finally getting around to installing the ARB I bought for it a few months back.

nblehm · 10-10-2020, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

Stock for stock there is no question. Who doesn't upgrade to 35 spline outers at least on a KP 60?

The 05+ F250/350 axle will accept OEM 1550 shafts available for the F550 I believe. The large spread on the ball joints increases the strength, and they do not have the weak knuckles that the old Ford axles have. I believe they also have larger and thicker axle tubes.

The real fun begins once you start spending money. RCV makes a 'big bell' shaft that eliminates the lock out / drive flange component and engages the entire hub of the UBH...can't recall if this requires aftermarket knuckles or not.

I just looked up those big bell rcvs. Crazy what they have out there now. Far cry from when 35 spline chromoly shafts were the toughest thing out there.

I dont really buy into the trend of everything having to have 47 spline shaft dana 80s. For some people absolutely, but its a select few. All these jks rolling round on dana 80s and 40s. Some say you cant over build I guess, but I think you can definitely over spend. This even extends to local trail report facebook pages. Trails people have been running for years in stock vehicles, probably 70% of people on those pages will claim you need full armor and probably 35 inch ties. Scraping a skid plate means you need more lift and bigger tires. Rant over.

nblehm · 10-10-2020, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoofmann

It’s been back and forth between ready and not all summer. I’m tearing out the 14 bolt spool this weekend and finally getting around to installing the ARB I bought for it a few months back.

Nice. I am down to do easier stuff like spring creek or chinamans or something

Hoofmann · 10-10-2020, 05:26 PM

I’d like to get out soon and do a little shake down next weekend or something.

10-05-2020, 02:19 PM	#22
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,709	The unit bearings can easily be re-drilled with a template which indexes off the stock studs (just one solution). I have never seen a failure of a unit bearing between the half a dozen or so people I know running that series of axle. The 05+ knuckles can also be machined for high steer IIRC. They can also be had for as little as $250. __________________ - James I like diesels

10-06-2020, 10:26 AM	#25
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,709	That's the thing...KP60 is not a modern axle by any measure anymore. What special tools do you need? . Keep a junk yard set of axle shafts bolted to the UBH as spares and call it good. I'd rather deal with a sealed wheel bearing in a mud hole than tapered roller bearings as well. The fact that new axles undergo standardized testing for GVWR and such is also something to consider...castings on an 05+ d60 will be stronger than a 30 year old KP axle for sure. They're cheaper, stronger, turn sharper, and have OEM 1550 shafts available for a few hundred dollars. Show me the down side . OEM Ford KP D60 knuckles are a known weak point anyway, so you need to almost always plan an upgrade there. Nate, it is largely dependent on where you live. You-pull it yards in SE MI will sell 05+ D60s for a few hundred dollars all day long. One of my friends got one for $50 on a sale day. Artec also has a ton of solutions available for the Superduty axles, as well as other companies out there. https://www.artecindustries.com/Ford-Superduty __________________ - James I like diesels Last edited by xj_man_646; 10-06-2020 at 10:31 AM.

10-06-2020, 10:47 AM	#26
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,780	Maybe its just because it is what I am used to but I would still rather use a kp60 You do make solid points for the superduty axle. Anything on a new diesel is beef these days. Facebook Market place around me cheapest 60 is a ball joint ford 60 from the 90s at 800, superduty 60 for 900 and a dodge 60 for 900. Should do alright on it worst case I went for a nice mountain drive on my way home from picking the 60 up. Last edited by nblehm; 10-06-2020 at 12:13 PM.

10-06-2020, 12:02 PM	#27
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,709	I believe you could flip it for a SD 60 and be ahead. 99-04 were leaf sprung and are decent, 05+ were coils and is where the real beef starts. There are 5 options for an 05+ axle within 20 miles of me, for less than $400 on car-part __________________ - James I like diesels

10-07-2020, 10:26 AM	#31
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,709	I've considered just starting to stash them and sell them to the lazy Jeep crowd. People out west are paying 1000 for them or more in some cases. If you took the time to add Jeep TJ/JK/JL axle mounts you could flip them for a killing. __________________ - James I like diesels

10-05-2020, 03:00 PM	#23
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,780	Oh I know there are solutions. Now I am going to have to look at the 60 market. I didnt know superduty axles were so cheap.

10-05-2020, 04:15 PM	#24
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,857	i've yet to see ANY modern axle i'd rather have. harder to screw with cuz they need special tools or technics to work on em, cost more in the long run if modding, plus i always worry about chinesium castings. if i needed more than a good ol king-pin i'd build something total custom. to anyone who doesn't like packing bearings, go take up knitting, haha. $600 seams ok if the kings and bearings are salvageable, but on the high end for a real junkyard axle for me. you can always part it down for that though! a quick wire wheel n paint job gets things sold quick, hehe.

10-06-2020, 02:00 PM	#28
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,780	I dont even know what I need a 60 for Does my truck need one? Not really I did break the longside shafts and ujoints but i feel like that wont be the norm. I dont habe anything else for a crawler right now, so dont really need axles sitting around. Maybe a willys at some point but not for a few years. I will have to look more into the super duty stuff.

10-06-2020, 04:24 PM	#29
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,857	worst case blast it clean, paint it nice, and make sure all the grease it clean ... you'll never loose money. i can say i like the added weight down low in the YJ.

10-06-2020, 04:49 PM	#30
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,780	I am thinking hard about 3 linking the front of the j10 with coilovers. Really want to make it more comfortable for trail wheeling. Only so many options with the spring over front and nearly flat springs as is. That said I dont really love rock crawling the j10. Hard to see out of because the hood is huge and square. That and I dont really want to cave any of the body panels in.

10-07-2020, 10:44 AM	#32
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,780	The land of no rust isnt good for used parts prices. Hell a 2004 tahoe probably still sells for 4-6k here. Makes ls motors still pretty expensive. No buying a rusted out truck for 500 bucks.

10-07-2020, 04:36 PM	#33
Hoofmann AKA: Kebo Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,818	A kingpin 60 is still the gold standard front end, in my opinion. The 2005+ super duty front ends are nice too and with weld on steering arms for high steer and OE 35 spline stubs, they have become a nice option. I don’t regret building my kingpin 60 but if I were to build another front end, I’d be looking for one of those 2005+ fronts for the simple fact that the U-joints are bigger and if you end up breaking the u-joints, you can fit a larger CV shaft than what you can fit in a kingpin. Oh and PS - build a crawler around that KP60 so we can go crawling!

10-09-2020, 03:01 PM	#36
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,709	Stock for stock there is no question. Who doesn't upgrade to 35 spline outers at least on a KP 60? The 05+ F250/350 axle will accept OEM 1550 shafts available for the F550 I believe. The large spread on the ball joints increases the strength, and they do not have the weak knuckles that the old Ford axles have. I believe they also have larger and thicker axle tubes. The real fun begins once you start spending money. RCV makes a 'big bell' shaft that eliminates the lock out / drive flange component and engages the entire hub of the UBH...can't recall if this requires aftermarket knuckles or not. __________________ - James I like diesels

10-10-2020, 05:26 PM	#40
Hoofmann AKA: Kebo Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,818	I’d like to get out soon and do a little shake down next weekend or something.