Post Your Tow Rig!

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by Cobound

Nice. I’d like to do a leveling kit, toss on some 33’s...I either do it before MOAB real quick or focus on it w/ more changes when I’m back. Hmmm....

Stock Ram tires are already 33", FYI. They're just narrow. Leveling kit and 295/60R20 is a fairly common upgrade, ends up just shy of 34". 33x12.5R20 would look good too and will fit with or without leveling kit.

Originally Posted by champ

These? https://www.methodracewheels.com/products/nv-machined

Meh... I like 'em.

I've always been a fan of those as well.

Originally Posted by MBood82

I looked a long time to find wheels that fit my truck that weren't all blingy, bro'd out, overly fake looking bull****. Those wheels were in the contention for me because they were a nice, fairly classic look. In the end I went with the same company, just the Fat Five version instead.

Not bad. They look like Rockstars with the douchebaggery removed. Kinda similar to early AEV Pintler.

[champ]

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

Not bad. They look like Rockstars with the douchebaggery removed. Kinda similar to early AEV Pintler.

My thoughts exactly.

It's not the easiest task to find a set of wheels that don't scream giant douche.

[Cobound]

Yeah, I checked the conversation sizes and figured the 33s would fit, thanx for confirming...would really like the leveling kit, 295s...really not planning anything more on the daily driver.

Sean, do you know if the AEV Mesa Rim will fit a Stock Ram w/o needing new rod ends - read that those may need swapping to fit

Those Method rims are sharp!

MBood’s Ram looks great, would like to match that!

Cuz I’m a cheap fuk, probably just stick w/ factory rims and spend my money on the tires

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by Cobound

Sean, do you know if the AEV Mesa Rim will fit a Stock Ram w/o needing new rod ends - read that those may need swapping to fit

Yes, the low profile tie rod ends are only needed with the AEV suspension. We move them on the knuckle to optimize geometry and minimize tire scrub, unlike most aftermarket suspensions. Stock they should fit just fine.

[Cobound]

Stock they fit fine...if I use a leveling kit they fit fine...ONLY needed w/ an AEV or larger lift?

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by Cobound

Stock they fit fine...if I use a leveling kit they fit fine...ONLY needed w/ an AEV or larger lift?

Sounds like only if you use their knuckle. If you use the stock knuckle on a leveling kit with the Mesa wheel you should be fine.

Once you go to a 3"+ lift and get a new spindle then you do need to get a different wheel, most kits say you need a 20 inch rim to clear the new spindle height. It's another reason I decided to go with the Bilstein option, I didn't want a 20 inch rim. I want some meat on the tire.

[Cobound]

I have a factory 20”...I’ll maybe Stick w/ that and go with 295/60/20...looking at the Bilstein strut vs. spacer.

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by Cobound

I have a factory 20”...I’ll maybe Stick w/ that and go with 295/60/20...looking at the Bilstein strut vs. spacer.

go bilstein. spacer risks upper control arm issues.

[Cobound]

That link you sent me was perfect! Totally doing the Bilstein!

Thanx!

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by MBood82

Sounds like only if you use their knuckle. If you use the stock knuckle on a leveling kit with the Mesa wheel you should be fine.

Once you go to a 3"+ lift and get a new spindle then you do need to get a different wheel, most kits say you need a 20 inch rim to clear the new spindle height. It's another reason I decided to go with the Bilstein option, I didn't want a 20 inch rim. I want some meat on the tire.

Correct, only requires our TRE with our lift/knuckle.

Originally Posted by Cobound

I have a factory 20”...I’ll maybe Stick w/ that and go with 295/60/20...looking at the Bilstein strut vs. spacer.

Factory wheel size is irrelevant, nothing else changes on the vehicle. But yes if you have 20s already there's not much reason to change unless you just want different wheels. You'll have to keep an eye on backside clearance to the tires, that's the case on most newer trucks.

Originally Posted by MBood82

go bilstein. spacer risks upper control arm issues.

The Bilstein setup is nice for sure, we actually used those struts in conjunction with custom spacers until our custom struts were available. But they're no different from a geometry standpoint than spacers. It exceeds the UBJ and CV angles at full droop just like a cheap spacer lift would. Normal spacers go between the top of the strut and the upper frame mount. Bilstein's setup has longer struts with multiple mounting grooves for the lower spring bucket. It's adjustable from roughly 0-2" lift, but basically acts like a spacer on the bottom instead of the top. The different lift heights also change spring preload rather than just static ride height. Not bashing the Bilstein setup, but don't kid yourself that it doesn't risk the same issues as any other leveling kit. Lift the front without correcting geometry and you're going to exceed the travel of upper balljoints and CVs.

[Cobound]

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

Correct, only requires our TRE with our lift/knuckle.


Factory wheel size is irrelevant, nothing else changes on the vehicle. But yes if you have 20s already there's not much reason to change unless you just want different wheels. You'll have to keep an eye on backside clearance to the tires, that's the case on most newer trucks.


The Bilstein setup is nice for sure, we actually used those struts in conjunction with custom spacers until our custom struts were available. But they're no different from a geometry standpoint than spacers. It exceeds the UBJ and CV angles at full droop just like a cheap spacer lift would. Normal spacers go between the top of the strut and the upper frame mount. Bilstein's setup has longer struts with multiple mounting grooves for the lower spring bucket. It's adjustable from roughly 0-2" lift, but basically acts like a spacer on the bottom instead of the top. The different lift heights also change spring preload rather than just static ride height. Not bashing the Bilstein setup, but don't kid yourself that it doesn't risk the same issues as any other leveling kit. Lift the front without correcting geometry and you're going to exceed the travel of upper balljoints and CVs.

Great info. With all that said, with me just looking for a set of 295/60/20 and factory or Mesa rims, what leveling kit would you recommend?

If I wanted a 35x12.50x20 would I need to lift front AND rear? Would prefer to keep it simple, and think the 295s would suffice for what I'm looking for. I'm coming up on having this 5 years, would like to keep it another 2-3 or more. Instead of upgrading vehicles, since I do really like it, I'll just make upgrades to the vehicle itself.

Would like to avoid needing a chip to correct speedo as well.

Thanks for the input gents!

B

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by Cobound

Great info. With all that said, with me just looking for a set of 295/60/20 and factory or Mesa rims, what leveling kit would you recommend?

If I wanted a 35x12.50x20 would I need to lift front AND rear? Would prefer to keep it simple, and think the 295s would suffice for what I'm looking for. I'm coming up on having this 5 years, would like to keep it another 2-3 or more. Instead of upgrading vehicles, since I do really like it, I'll just make upgrades to the vehicle itself.

Would like to avoid needing a chip to correct speedo as well.

Thanks for the input gents!

B

Bilstein would still be a great choice for a leveling kit, I just didn't want you to kid yourself that you wouldn't be maxxing out other components doing it. If you're trying to fit 35s I'd highly recommend the AEV kit. It's on the high end of price, but it also is for quality and design. Most other kits cut a lot of corners that ours doesn't. But if you don't plan to keep the truck that long you'd be better off from a budget standpoint just leveling it and throwing 295s on.

[Cobound]

Perfect.

Yeah, I can see 2-3 more years out of it...it'll be over 100k before next spring, and that's when I tend to start looking. The fact I bought this new has me in it a bit longer, and I could easily keep it much longer, but I know me too well to think too far ahead

The minute I find a new job or get a fat bump in pay I'm likely to get a big hair up my...

Thanx again,

B

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

The Bilstein setup is nice for sure, we actually used those struts in conjunction with custom spacers until our custom struts were available. But they're no different from a geometry standpoint than spacers. It exceeds the UBJ and CV angles at full droop just like a cheap spacer lift would. Normal spacers go between the top of the strut and the upper frame mount. Bilstein's setup has longer struts with multiple mounting grooves for the lower spring bucket. It's adjustable from roughly 0-2" lift, but basically acts like a spacer on the bottom instead of the top. The different lift heights also change spring preload rather than just static ride height. Not bashing the Bilstein setup, but don't kid yourself that it doesn't risk the same issues as any other leveling kit. Lift the front without correcting geometry and you're going to exceed the travel of upper balljoints and CVs.

See, I always thought that too until I dug into it a bit, I didn't understand the difference. I'd be interested to see if you have any feedback otherwise, having a manufacturer experience, relative to what I found.

The argument, straight from Bilstein, is that their shock has the same travel capabilities as a factory shock. Therefore, you can't overextend since the extended length is the exact same as a factory shock. It does stiffen up the ride a bit but I don't think it's made it overly harsh or abrasive.

The lift is accomplished by changing the spring preload (as you note) but all that does is change the static ride height. So if static ride height had the shock 50% extended at the stock height, now it's at 75% extension with the new preload.

In comparison, the spacer lift would move the whole strut assembly down by the height of the spacer, which means the static ride height is still at that 50% extension, allowing further droop, which is where the internet hive mind thinks the upper control arm issues crop up.





For what it's worth, when I had the factory struts side by side with the Bilsteins, they were the same extended length.

[bbaCJ8]

Well I guess I stand corrected. We were using them in a different application, but I got the distinct impression they were also longer than factory. Maybe there was another variable I missed/misunderstood or maybe it was a different shock entirely.

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

Well I guess I stand corrected. We were using them in a different application, but I got the distinct impression they were also longer than factory. Maybe there was another variable I missed/misunderstood or maybe it was a different shock entirely.

They have a ton of different models, it's entirely possible that since your company was using different control arms and/or knuckles they used a longer shock to allow for more droop.

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by MBood82

They have a ton of different models, it's entirely possible that since your company was using different control arms and/or knuckles they used a longer shock to allow for more droop.

We have custom Bilsteins built to our specs for all our suspensions, but when I launched the 1500 system we started with their off the shelf shocks in conjunction with spacers for the front. The lead time was pretty long for our custom ones and we needed to get product to market. Of course they were properly designed with our geometry brackets and spacers to work right, so the stock travel issues are a moot point for what we did. I could have sworn they were the 0-2" lift version, but don't care enough to go back and check. Even the ads I've seen from Bilstein advertise added suspension travel, which I would assume means extra droop since extra compression with larger tires would generally cause interference. Plus adding lift without adding droop typically leads to premature top-out and poor ride and handling because of it.

Like you said, maybe they have multiple versions to do the same job and we just used a different one than you did. They also offer a nice 60mm shock/spring upgrade. Our warehouse manager put it on his truck and really likes it.

When I can swing a new truck I've really been leaning toward a 5.0L F-150, but all these nice upgrades I could do to a Ram are pretty damn tempting too. I feel like the F-150 is a nicer all around truck, but Rams have come a LONG way over the years too and the Hemi rips. I'll be towing an 8000 lb camper frequently in the summer and my Jeep now and then so a 3/4 ton diesel is still damn tempting, but a 1/2 ton is a lot nicer for the other 25,000 miles a year I'll be driving.

[MBood82]

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

We have custom Bilsteins built to our specs for all our suspensions, but when I launched the 1500 system we started with their off the shelf shocks in conjunction with spacers for the front. The lead time was pretty long for our custom ones and we needed to get product to market. Of course they were properly designed with our geometry brackets and spacers to work right, so the stock travel issues are a moot point for what we did. I could have sworn they were the 0-2" lift version, but don't care enough to go back and check. Even the ads I've seen from Bilstein advertise added suspension travel, which I would assume means extra droop since extra compression with larger tires would generally cause interference. Plus adding lift without adding droop typically leads to premature top-out and poor ride and handling because of it.

Yeah, I'm still confused by their marketing, literally the graphic I used below says it maintains the same up travel and down travel but then says it increases the overall travel. Maybe they mean useful travel?

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

Like you said, maybe they have multiple versions to do the same job and we just used a different one than you did. They also offer a nice 60mm shock/spring upgrade. Our warehouse manager put it on his truck and really likes it.

Is the 60mm an adjustable shock as well? That sounds intriguing for when I need to replace mine, I wouldn't mind upgrading. I likely wouldn't be switching to a proper lift kit likely, mostly because I don't want to move from 17 inch rims, but I also dont' want to sit any taller. As it is I have a 6 foot, 8 inch clearance requirement. I had a hell of a time finding parking in Lansing this week, every garage was 6 foot, 7 inches! It seems all to common to run into that in cities and since I travel for sales a lot I don't want to be limited where I can go.

Originally Posted by bbaCJ8

When I can swing a new truck I've really been leaning toward a 5.0L F-150, but all these nice upgrades I could do to a Ram are pretty damn tempting too. I feel like the F-150 is a nicer all around truck, but Rams have come a LONG way over the years too and the Hemi rips. I'll be towing an 8000 lb camper frequently in the summer and my Jeep now and then so a 3/4 ton diesel is still damn tempting, but a 1/2 ton is a lot nicer for the other 25,000 miles a year I'll be driving.

I ride in a lot of vehicles with my reps, they usually have half ton trucks or Tahoe/Suburbans these days. Sitting on the passenger side, they all ride the same stock and have similar amenities. Usually the Fords "feel" the fastest but I think that's a matter of perspective, they generally have the EcoBoost which is designed to feel like it has all the torque off the line. I think the infotainment and instrument cluster is really the biggest difference these days other than engine choice and I really like how Dodge does theirs, I think it feels the most modern and easy to use. Almost Apple like... which is scary.

I think if I did it over again I'd still buy the Ram. Especially with the RamBoxes, I absolutely love mine.

[bbaCJ8]

Originally Posted by MBood82

Yeah, I'm still confused by their marketing, literally the graphic I used below says it maintains the same up travel and down travel but then says it increases the overall travel. Maybe they mean useful travel?

Yeah I don't get it either. I don't see how useful travel would change either, because in normal driving with more spring preload it's going to use less travel than factory. Or maybe it'd be a wash, it'd use less up and more down. I guess I haven't given it enough thought. To me at the same mounting geometry, if you use more travel that means more shock travel as well.

Originally Posted by MBood82

Is the 60mm an adjustable shock as well? That sounds intriguing for when I need to replace mine, I wouldn't mind upgrading. I likely wouldn't be switching to a proper lift kit likely, mostly because I don't want to move from 17 inch rims, but I also dont' want to sit any taller. As it is I have a 6 foot, 8 inch clearance requirement. I had a hell of a time finding parking in Lansing this week, every garage was 6 foot, 7 inches! It seems all to common to run into that in cities and since I travel for sales a lot I don't want to be limited where I can go.

Pretty sure it's the same setup with multiple snap ring grooves, it's just a larger shock. It's the equivalent of a 2.5" body, they just measure it by piston size(the important part), rather than body size like everyone else. It's a more expensive kit because it also comes with new springs to fit the larger shocks, but if you're actually taxing your shocks it should perform better. He was bashing his pretty good at the dunes and said it made a big improvement.

Originally Posted by MBood82

I ride in a lot of vehicles with my reps, they usually have half ton trucks or Tahoe/Suburbans these days. Sitting on the passenger side, they all ride the same stock and have similar amenities. Usually the Fords "feel" the fastest but I think that's a matter of perspective, they generally have the EcoBoost which is designed to feel like it has all the torque off the line. I think the infotainment and instrument cluster is really the biggest difference these days other than engine choice and I really like how Dodge does theirs, I think it feels the most modern and easy to use. Almost Apple like... which is scary.

I think if I did it over again I'd still buy the Ram. Especially with the RamBoxes, I absolutely love mine.

I've always been a GM guy, but they're not even in the running for my next truck. They make a great reliable vehicle, but their calibration, programming, and torque management drives me nuts. My wife has an 09 Tahoe, and even though the 5.3/6L80E is a great combo, the programming sucks. It's a turd anywhere under 3/4 throttle. Plus I want something that'll fit 2 car seats in back and have room for 2 dogs on the floor for trips ,and the GM crew cab is tiny compared to the others.
My current truck is an 05 Chevy and has been way nicer and more reliable than either Ram I had. I loved the Rams when I had them but was realistic enough to know they weren't the best at the time. But Ram has also made the biggest steps in improving each generation as they try to catch up to the competition. They're closer than ever now, but some parts of them still feel cheaper than the GM or Ford do. But purchase cost also reflects this, and I love the tuning, power, and throttle response of the Hemi. I've never been a Ford fan but they've really grown on me the past few years. The interior space is second to none and the features and styling(inside and out) are great. The 3.5 Ecoboost is a beast for towing, but since I'll be buying a used truck and driving it for 150k+ miles I'm still not sold on its longevity and complexity. I'm leaning towards a 5.0 if I go F-150. I haven't actually driven one but anyone I've talked to who has loves them. If I were leasing I'd go Ecoboost without hesitation, but I drive too much for that so I want longterm reliability. It's no slouch in the power department either, it'll just need to rev more towing than the Ecoboost would. I think towing MPG will be single digit crap for any of them, so that doesn't make much difference.
I still love the thought of a newer deleted Cummins for towing and excess power on demand, but probably not enough to outweigh the increased purchase and maintenance costs along with the reduced day to day comfort and convenience. I dunno. I want a lot and I'm not ready to pay for any of the available options yet. When the time comes I'll drive a bunch of different trucks, weigh my options, and probably still not know WTF I wanna do.

[Cobound]

I'd love a diesel, but like you, can't justify the times of use vs. daily needs and added costs that come w/ it.

I'm not sold on the Ramboxes...not able to use a topper, and now that I have one, love it. I'll buy another Ram w/o hesitation.

B