Project: PolarRAM

[xj_man_646]

Now, the question would be how does that info above compare to an OEM clutch and the recommendations in an owner's manual? . Genuinely curious as I've seen OEM clutches last a long time.

I can't see ever wanting to haul a loaded trailer without engine braking, especially on hills. Eff that noise.

[xj_man_646]

Originally Posted by 6DoF

so i got to thinking the other day about my low end power issue ... it might not just be from super lag turbo's. i really need to verify where they set the timing, and with the rest of the build being very dyno number oriented, i bet it's way too high.

What is your experience with a 12v?

They are gutless in OEM form.

I can't imagine how they would be before turbo spool in a compound application. Are both your turbos larger than the stock 12v unit?

[Baby peez]

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

I can't see ever wanting to haul a loaded trailer without engine braking, especially on hills. Eff that noise.

yup, at that point a big block gasser is starting to be in consideration

[6DoF]

ya know ... i was thinking the same and was somewhat worried about that. i actually have an exhaust brake on my bench that i got for the 55, but will be installing on Hank eventually. i've not towed a ton, but multiple trips with the enclosed loaded with the YJ and i've never thought i was anywhere near the edge without one. PA turnpike mountains, up n down the goat paths getting to the trails, all reasonable. the enclosed does have pretty good brakes though.

[nblehm]

I’ve had a bad experience with Valair (Sp?) clutches. We put one in a customer truck, they picked the dual disc performance clutch. He used it to tow trailers etc and it sucked there was zero clutch slip, just grab and go. We swapped it out for there daily driver dual disc and while it was better it still wasn’t something I’d want in a truck that I pulled a trailer with. That is my only experience with them and it was a bad one with wrong parts selected so take it with a grain of salt.

[6DoF]

yeah, lots of ppl can't deal with a tight clutch. i think it's weird that Valair specs the towing or daily dual disc for even an otherwise stock truck when towing, just not enough torque to slip it. on the other hand, i love a tight clutch and everything i own gets a ceramic puck set up. hank with 10,000lbs in tow can easily make RPM thru the current SB daily dual while letting it out. preference vs horse-torques vs driver preference

[6DoF]

it has begun! G360 is out, i am now on the "always swap it out" bandwagon. sure it can be fixed, but parts aren't available any more. she's being sold for parts if anyone wants it. check out the breakage though, how do you explode a synchro collar!?!? that would explain why i suddenly had zero synchro in 2nd only thing i can figure is it was damaged when the rear input bearing exploded and i missed the cracks. would also explain the non-engagement in the 1st rebuild.

i was going to give my buddy the clutch since it was a SB dual disc with life left on the frictions ... but it would seam that's not really going to work. the dampers are old enough they have become brittle and are shattering. one is completely missing from the other disc. the hot spots have also been there long enough to be smooth :LOL:

[6DoF]

so into the actual 5600 swap. after riding with a buddy who had a 5600 truck, I'm starting to get excited for this.

first things first, new engine mounts to make sure the engine is in the right place before i build a trans mount. obviously needed anyways though, engine picked up almost 1/2". while things were apart i also did a rear main seal.

got the 2ng gen trans adapter on there easy enough, but the 2nd gen starter does hit the frame. now i have the back of the engine jacked up n held higher at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I'll need to add some clearance in there. new Valair street dual disc, everything about it just seams better than the SB. design, not old vs new.

didn't get a picture, but beat the pinch seam up flat to the body for bell clearance.

i was pretty sure the 5600 was longer from my research, but it's not all that different. also excited to be able to use the clocking ring now that I'm making a crossmember and get the front shaft angles way better. i bet the bell height is still the same or better :LOL:

nv5600 vs G360:
(from bell housing, just realizing i didn't measure the trans adapter thickness)
-5.5" longer with clocking ring (5-1/8" longer without)
-shifter is only 2.25" further back

*EDIT: trans adapters ... 1.125" longer for the 2nd gen. (2nd Gen: 2-3/8" ; 1st Gen: 1-1/4")

so this means my t-case actually moves back 6-5/8". The shifter moves back 3-3/8"

[xj_man_646]

Nice progress so far. What do you have for a trans jack?

[6DoF]

right now i have a HF trans jack adapter welded onto an old floor jack ... but i'm seriously considering getting a new HF wide base jack for this heavy beast.

[Hoofmann]

I’d say this is the transmission that should be in a 12 valve with compound turbos. I wouldn’t trust anything besides an NV5600 or a ZF6. I guess the NV4500 would work, but that pesky 5th gear issue is just a bummer.

[xj_man_646]

I wish the ZF-6 would have been used across the board. Its very rare that I hear about any issues with that transmission.

Until this thread I honestly didn't know you could still get parts for the NV5600. It went out of use (in the Dodge trucks anyway) 20 years ago!

[6DoF]

[QUOTE=Hoofmann;83743]I

[6DoF]

[QUOTE=Hoofmann;83743]Id say this is the transmission that should be in a 12 valve with compound turbos. I wouldn

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by Hoofmann

Id say this is the transmission that should be in a 12 valve with compound turbos. I wouldnt trust anything besides an NV5600 or a ZF6. I guess the NV4500 would work, but that pesky 5th gear issue is just a bummer.

the 4500 and the G360 that just came out are basically equal in strength, Dodge only switched cuz the 4500 is cheaper to make. the 4500 however still has all the parts to buy.

and the 5th gear nut is an easy fix with the locks available now.

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

I wish the ZF-6 would have been used across the board. Its very rare that I hear about any issues with that transmission.

Until this thread I honestly didn't know you could still get parts for the NV5600. It went out of use (in the Dodge trucks anyway) 20 years ago!

agreed, i think the ZF6 would be just a TINY bit better of a trans than the 5600.

there are lots of guys who use the 5600 for crazy power applications cuz the aluminum case of the G56 deflects too much. They even sell an exoskeleton stiffener!

[6DoF]

no clue why, but it's the ' that makes the quotes fail ... i had to change "I'd" to Id and wouldn't to wouldnt in the quote before it would work.

[6DoF]

so trans adapters ... 1.125" longer for the 2nd gen.

2nd Gen: 2-3/8"
1st Gen: 1-1/4"

so this means my t-case actually moves back 6-5/8"
The shifter moves back 3-3/8"

[6DoF]

first things things first, making the NP205 bolt to the NV5600. most ppl just remove the rear seal from the 5600 and let the void between trans and t-case fill with fluid. we can do better.

i put a rag over the 205 input and tapped the input collar over it to hold steady. then had the wife run the 205 output with a drill so that i could grind the end of the collar to 2.0" like a fancy little lathe. polished it a bit, and she slips right in.

my only concern is the striations from the grinder that are still there after polishing are going the wrong direction to wipe fluid back into the case. they might actually pull fluid thru the seal. i guess we'll find out, and i can have a machinist do the other side of the collar if needed.

[6DoF]

next i got distracted and made a shift knob adapter. M10x1.5 to 1/2-13. this puts the EATON shifter on my 5600 short-shift stick, and gives me 2 air switches on the knob. one is for exhaust brake for sure, but not sure on the 2nd. front locker? air horn?

[6DoF]

now onto the good stuff! first trans stab complete and it looks like everything is going to fit really nice! new trans jack from HF is also really good. dual axis tilt on the head, goes higher and lower than my welded junk i had been using, nice stable base, the damn thing even weighs more than the 5spd did. all win. plus now i can cut the adapter off the other and have a standard floor jack back.

started by finding the CG of the 5600/205 for best placement on the jack. worked out nice at the seam in the rear case. made manipulation under the truck way easier having that set middle of the jack pad. plus now i can pull/stab it all together and not have to pull the 205 under the truck. that thing is heavy enough to require the trans jack by itself. hell, i can even leave the t-case shifters on while pulling it now.

before the stabbing i started a base for the 205 twin stick shifters, just waiting on the shifter kit to start modifying those parts onto my bracket. was expected Friday, but it appears to be lost now ... at least i could finish the rest easy enough in the truck while this bracket really needed done on the bench.

LIFT YOUR TRUCK! cuz then you can slid the trans under without jacking it up