Project: PapaBear

6DoF · 09-27-2017, 08:19 AM

1999 2.5/auto

121,000 miles
bone stock
interior is awesome, AC, soundbar, center console
new sailcloth sunrider top in 2006, never been off
good tires
effectively ZERO rust!
cam lobe worn round

$1500

**January 2010**

**March 2010**

the new 2.5 i swapped in was not up to the task, swapped in another.

6DoF · 09-27-2017, 08:20 AM

**March 2011**

highline fenders and rear axle/4-link

**November 2011**

got the 6.0L / NV4500 / D300 up and running

6DoF · 09-27-2017, 08:33 AM

**July 2016**

finished up full cage

**april 2017**

complete new rear FF 9" and 12" COs

6DoF · 09-27-2017, 08:41 AM

now on to current events! so last year when i blew up the drive shaft and d300 output, i kind of think i might have also hurt the 4500. left my GMC at the inlaws and was driving the TJ only for a few weeks, including a few short road trips. well it has been making not great noises for a while, but thought maybe it was just finally broken in ... until it started to oil my clutch. 100pts to the SPEC Stage-3 (6-puck ceramic) clutch that while greatly compromised was still able to function perfectly fine to drive it.

Cobound · 09-27-2017, 09:15 AM

Bummer.

6DoF · 04-02-2018, 08:57 AM

ok, that SUX that all the pictures linked from FB just loose the link and are gone. i don't want to redo this thread AGAIN. but it looks like maybe Google+ works for hosting. if they stay up, i'll fix the links.

anyways, got the TJ back to B-more last night and up on Ethan's lift. going to pull the trans and find out why it is oiling my clutch, and the under side of the jeep so bad. with some luck it will just be a seal, but i'm pretty sure i'll find other broken parts in there. it's been getting worse ever since the drive shaft / t-case explosion leaving the car cruise.

rear droop is so much more than the front ... gota get that built!

6DoF · 04-03-2018, 09:05 PM

Holy sh!t-balls ... I really thought something was going to be broke in this transmission. Turns out the input seal had fallen inside the transmission, it has almost no land to seat on. As I pulled the input retainer off the seal stayed on the shaft but the seal looks perfectly good. I'm going to buy a new one anyways hoping it press fits in better. Is also a small matter of cleaning a whole lot of lubricant off of a friction surface ...

xj_man_646 · 04-04-2018, 06:47 AM

Brake cleaner is your friend. Good to hear it wasn't anything more serious!

6DoF · 04-05-2018, 08:38 AM

i've said it before, i'll say it again ... Advance Adapters can choke on a rotting donkey dick and die in a gutter. they have fawked me on every last part, thank god i got to return most of it back when this all started. to be fair i was in a rush and didn't realize in 2001 you could walk into a GM dealer and buy a 2500HD stock with an LQ4 and NV4500.

pilot bushing ... when i did the clutch last year it came with a GM, stock application bearing but it didn't fit my crank. turns out i used AA's 'special crank adapter' to use their 'special bronze bushing', and it all failed miserably. had to cut out the spacer so i can now use the stock GM pc that costs 75% less. fukk you AA.

Bell housing ... this casting is so bad it's not even funny. when i ordered it and put it in the first time with their kit i had to cut chunks out of it to use their parts. they told me "you might need to grind some", dude i used a cut off wheel and chunks fell. well now this new stock application clutch has machined it away! you can see where a chunk was missing in the casting on the top inside left vs right and just made a huge thick spot. same on the right side rib, just thicker then whats around it. fukk you AA.

xj_man_646 · 04-05-2018, 09:20 AM

Wow. That really blows.

Yeah, you could get a 6.0L/NV4500 until the GMT900 platform I believe. They're hard to find, but they're out there.

MBood82 · 04-05-2018, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj_man_646

Wow. That really blows.

Yeah, you could get a 6.0L/NV4500 until the GMT900 platform I believe. They're hard to find, but they're out there.

You could even get the 8.1 with a stick, though I don't think it was the NV4500 but a six speed transmission. I saw one for sale a while back somewhere down south, dark green color, extended cab, low miles, it was perfect. I'd have a hard time not grabbing one of those today if I saw it!

6DoF · 04-05-2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBood82

You could even get the 8.1 with a stick, though I don't think it was the NV4500 but a six speed transmission. I saw one for sale a while back somewhere down south, dark green color, extended cab, low miles, it was perfect. I'd have a hard time not grabbing one of those today if I saw it!

those came with a ZF6!

nblehm · 04-05-2018, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBood82

You could even get the 8.1 with a stick, though I don't think it was the NV4500 but a six speed transmission. I saw one for sale a while back somewhere down south, dark green color, extended cab, low miles, it was perfect. I'd have a hard time not grabbing one of those today if I saw it!

Does anybody actually want an 8.1 though?

xj_man_646 · 04-06-2018, 09:02 AM

8.1 is a sweet engine. You could argue the loss in MPG could make up for the extra maintenance of a newer diesel, depending on how much you need to use it. I probably wouldn't DD one, but for a weekend tow rig, I'd consider it.

I recently learned what a POS GM made the GMT800 manual transmission trucks. The pedal/bracket assembly is all plastic, and the master cylinder is some kind of 1/4 turn-lock mechanism that is prone to shooting out of the firewall randomly. Really has turned me off of wanting one of those.

nblehm · 04-06-2018, 09:38 AM

2nd gen Cummins use a 1/4 turn master for the clutch. Not a big deal if they are installed right.

xj_man_646 · 04-06-2018, 11:23 AM

The giant plastic contraption that it attaches to is the main issue.

6DoF · 04-13-2018, 07:42 AM

since the dust cover that AA sent me obviously was wrong ... it was rubbing the flywheel AGAIN. luckily i had just cut it so i could get it out without pulling the trans, pulled it and cut it up to be correct now. no possible chance to interfere with anything.

then yesterday had a minor mishap driving home. back when i built the cage i cut and welded the shifter a second time to move it. at the time decided in favor of time and effort that i'd throw out all good welding practices cuz "it's just a shifter"

well fukk ... stabbed the stub left on the trans with the stick to get 3rd gear, drove back to the closest welder. on the bight side though, this new 3rd shifter placement is by far the best!

6DoF · 04-18-2018, 02:16 PM

Last year i had a gear wine and the trans kept grinding more and shifting harder, this is mainly what led me to think i broke the trans. the FUBAR pilot bushing now replaced with the correct bearing has made the trans butter, but the gear wine was still there and maybe getting worse.

last night i changed the rear diff fluid, ended up pulling the 3rd cuz the fluid look bad. sure enough, found my noise! taking it to be rebuilt tonight at Appalachian off road.

xj_man_646 · 04-20-2018, 06:48 AM

Dang. That sucks. What went wrong in the rear end? Just poor gear set up? Bearing prematurely worn out?

6DoF · 04-24-2018, 06:37 AM

not sure i can blame the set-up, they were smooth and quite to start. i got the gears like 50-70% off new from Randy's years ago, maybe they were race only or had a suspected issue batch. could have been i didn't break em in right, could have been i didn't change the fluid after break-in. is what it is.

AOR should hopefully have the new 5.13s in it here asap.

09-27-2017, 08:19 AM	#1
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	Project: PapaBear 1999 2.5/auto 121,000 miles bone stock interior is awesome, AC, soundbar, center console new sailcloth sunrider top in 2006, never been off good tires effectively ZERO rust! cam lobe worn round $1500 January 2010 March 2010 the new 2.5 i swapped in was not up to the task, swapped in another. Last edited by 6DoF; 09-27-2017 at 08:25 AM.

09-27-2017, 08:20 AM	#2
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	March 2011 highline fenders and rear axle/4-link November 2011 got the 6.0L / NV4500 / D300 up and running Last edited by 6DoF; 09-27-2017 at 08:25 AM.

09-27-2017, 09:15 AM	#5
Cobound - The Don - Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MN Posts: 49,186	Bummer. __________________ To each his own. Not all those who wander are lost. The great irony - triggered snowflakes accusing triggered snowflakes of being triggered snowflakes

04-02-2018, 08:57 AM	#6
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	ok, that SUX that all the pictures linked from FB just loose the link and are gone. i don't want to redo this thread AGAIN. but it looks like maybe Google+ works for hosting. if they stay up, i'll fix the links. anyways, got the TJ back to B-more last night and up on Ethan's lift. going to pull the trans and find out why it is oiling my clutch, and the under side of the jeep so bad. with some luck it will just be a seal, but i'm pretty sure i'll find other broken parts in there. it's been getting worse ever since the drive shaft / t-case explosion leaving the car cruise. rear droop is so much more than the front ... gota get that built! Last edited by 6DoF; 04-02-2018 at 09:02 AM.

04-03-2018, 09:05 PM	#7
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	Holy sh!t-balls ... I really thought something was going to be broke in this transmission. Turns out the input seal had fallen inside the transmission, it has almost no land to seat on. As I pulled the input retainer off the seal stayed on the shaft but the seal looks perfectly good. I'm going to buy a new one anyways hoping it press fits in better. Is also a small matter of cleaning a whole lot of lubricant off of a friction surface ... Last edited by 6DoF; 04-04-2018 at 08:13 AM.

09-27-2017, 08:33 AM	#3
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	July 2016 finished up full cage april 2017 complete new rear FF 9" and 12" COs

09-27-2017, 08:41 AM	#4
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	now on to current events! so last year when i blew up the drive shaft and d300 output, i kind of think i might have also hurt the 4500. left my GMC at the inlaws and was driving the TJ only for a few weeks, including a few short road trips. well it has been making not great noises for a while, but thought maybe it was just finally broken in ... until it started to oil my clutch. 100pts to the SPEC Stage-3 (6-puck ceramic) clutch that while greatly compromised was still able to function perfectly fine to drive it.

04-04-2018, 06:47 AM	#8
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,750	Brake cleaner is your friend. Good to hear it wasn't anything more serious! __________________ - James I like diesels

04-05-2018, 08:38 AM	#9
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	i've said it before, i'll say it again ... Advance Adapters can choke on a rotting donkey dick and die in a gutter. they have fawked me on every last part, thank god i got to return most of it back when this all started. to be fair i was in a rush and didn't realize in 2001 you could walk into a GM dealer and buy a 2500HD stock with an LQ4 and NV4500. pilot bushing ... when i did the clutch last year it came with a GM, stock application bearing but it didn't fit my crank. turns out i used AA's 'special crank adapter' to use their 'special bronze bushing', and it all failed miserably. had to cut out the spacer so i can now use the stock GM pc that costs 75% less. fukk you AA. Bell housing ... this casting is so bad it's not even funny. when i ordered it and put it in the first time with their kit i had to cut chunks out of it to use their parts. they told me "you might need to grind some", dude i used a cut off wheel and chunks fell. well now this new stock application clutch has machined it away! you can see where a chunk was missing in the casting on the top inside left vs right and just made a huge thick spot. same on the right side rib, just thicker then whats around it. fukk you AA. Last edited by 6DoF; 04-05-2018 at 08:46 AM.

04-05-2018, 09:20 AM	#10
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,750	Wow. That really blows. Yeah, you could get a 6.0L/NV4500 until the GMT900 platform I believe. They're hard to find, but they're out there. __________________ - James I like diesels

04-06-2018, 09:02 AM	#14
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,750	8.1 is a sweet engine. You could argue the loss in MPG could make up for the extra maintenance of a newer diesel, depending on how much you need to use it. I probably wouldn't DD one, but for a weekend tow rig, I'd consider it. I recently learned what a POS GM made the GMT800 manual transmission trucks. The pedal/bracket assembly is all plastic, and the master cylinder is some kind of 1/4 turn-lock mechanism that is prone to shooting out of the firewall randomly. Really has turned me off of wanting one of those. __________________ - James I like diesels

04-06-2018, 09:38 AM	#15
nblehm Needs moar dagger Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26,785	2nd gen Cummins use a 1/4 turn master for the clutch. Not a big deal if they are installed right.

04-06-2018, 11:23 AM	#16
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,750	The giant plastic contraption that it attaches to is the main issue. __________________ - James I like diesels

04-13-2018, 07:42 AM	#17
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	since the dust cover that AA sent me obviously was wrong ... it was rubbing the flywheel AGAIN. luckily i had just cut it so i could get it out without pulling the trans, pulled it and cut it up to be correct now. no possible chance to interfere with anything. then yesterday had a minor mishap driving home. back when i built the cage i cut and welded the shifter a second time to move it. at the time decided in favor of time and effort that i'd throw out all good welding practices cuz "it's just a shifter" well fukk ... stabbed the stub left on the trans with the stick to get 3rd gear, drove back to the closest welder. on the bight side though, this new 3rd shifter placement is by far the best! Last edited by 6DoF; 04-13-2018 at 07:45 AM.

04-18-2018, 02:16 PM	#18
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	Last year i had a gear wine and the trans kept grinding more and shifting harder, this is mainly what led me to think i broke the trans. the FUBAR pilot bushing now replaced with the correct bearing has made the trans butter, but the gear wine was still there and maybe getting worse. last night i changed the rear diff fluid, ended up pulling the 3rd cuz the fluid look bad. sure enough, found my noise! taking it to be rebuilt tonight at Appalachian off road.

04-20-2018, 06:48 AM	#19
xj_man_646 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MN Posts: 27,750	Dang. That sucks. What went wrong in the rear end? Just poor gear set up? Bearing prematurely worn out? __________________ - James I like diesels

04-24-2018, 06:37 AM	#20
6DoF AKA: jeepnski Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 16,886	not sure i can blame the set-up, they were smooth and quite to start. i got the gears like 50-70% off new from Randy's years ago, maybe they were race only or had a suspected issue batch. could have been i didn't break em in right, could have been i didn't change the fluid after break-in. is what it is. AOR should hopefully have the new 5.13s in it here asap.