Official End of the JK, Friday April 27th, 2018

[Dennis]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180424/BLOG06/180429898/

[Cobound]

Adios...waiting for the JT, or an affordable JL to come along well before I give up my JK.

Was another great Jeep run, now only if they brought the REAL Cherokee (XJ) back w/ the updates the JL received :eek:

B

[6DoF]

http://billgeist.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b69969e201b7c8fa2a7b970b-pi

[bbaCJ8]

Adios...waiting for the JT, or an affordable JL to come along well before I give up my JK.

Was another great Jeep run, now only if they brought the REAL Cherokee (XJ) back w/ the updates the JL received :eek:

B
JT is gonna be a helluva lot less affordable than the JL, so don't get too excited. I've heard from a reliable source that it's intended as a niche vehicle and will be priced accordingly.

[Cobound]

JT is gonna be a helluva lot less affordable than the JL, so don't get too excited. I've heard from a reliable source that it's intended as a niche vehicle and will be priced accordingly.

Yeah, that's why I said I'll be waiting :lol:

Totally NOT excited to hear the price, and likely not even an option after I've had my JK to Moab. I really like the dry storage space, the interior room, wheelbase...and most of all, especially after have my hangover scraping Scrambler...the departure angle on mine is freakin sweet!

Anyway, I'm not a JK hater, so I'm good w/ what I got for the time.

[Sir Sam]

Man that article was harsh at the end.

[xj_man_646]

The end of the article is accurate.

One thing to note is the wind noise. I drove a JL with 750 miles on it last week, and had wind noise around the doors. Bugged the sh1t out of me for a brand new vehicle with that price tag.

[Cobound]

Meh, I've gotten wind noise in other high end vehicles, the JL I drove was everything you could ask for.

It's not a car :rolleyes:

That right there was likely their harshest feedback...people buying one thought they were getting into a car, they weren't. Which lead to low reviews and such, as the article stated as well...IIRC. Anyway, "it is what it" is never fit a vehicle better than a Jeep Wrangler :lol:

[6DoF]

ppl get into $500,000 convertible cars and complain about wind noise ... these are the same ppl executing the pyramid scheme of hate.

[xj_man_646]

It also had more bump steer than my old wheeler did. Metro Detroit roads and a 2 door Wrangler do not go well :lol:

I will say it was far more comfortable than the JK's I have driven. When I sit comfortably in a JK, my head is touching the B-pillar. Not so with the JLs I have been in...that is nice.

[champ]

I had a 4dr Sahara JK as a rental in Canada this week and I thought it was incredibly quiet and comfortable. The ride was bit firm, but wind noise and tracking at 120kph (:f2:) was great.

[Dennis]

I had a 4dr Sahara JK as a rental in Canada this week and I thought it was incredibly quiet and comfortable. The ride was bit firm, but wind noise and tracking at 120kph (:f2:) was great.
Yeah, relative to a CJ/YJ/TJ, they are silent. Compared to a Mercedes M-class they are a little loud. Compared to the Bentley SUV I rode in a few weeks ago, JKs are like being in a tornado.

[Cobound]

:lol:

[Sir Sam]

The Jeep Wrangler JK and especially the JKU Wrangler Unlimited were remarkable vehicles when they were introduced, and remained so even as they grew more and more obsolete over the ensuing decade. When the last one rolls on Friday, Jeep fans everywhere should raise a glass to its passing.

The end of the article is accurate.


Fukkin burn man.

[bbaCJ8]

It also had more bump steer than my old wheeler did. Metro Detroit roads and a 2 door Wrangler do not go well :lol:

I will say it was far more comfortable than the JK's I have driven. When I sit comfortably in a JK, my head is touching the B-pillar. Not so with the JLs I have been in...that is nice.
It's easy to fix the wind noise. I was driving one this weekend. Had the freedom panels off for a while, got one of the seals folded over when I reinstalled. Took 30 seconds to fix and it's back to being quieter than my car, even on 35" KM2s.

Bump steer isn't bad at all on these. It's got front and rear track bars, so on major road disturbances they can get upset a bit, but it's not much different than most vehicles I've driven.

[xj_man_646]

It's easy to fix the wind noise. I was driving one this weekend. Had the freedom panels off for a while, got one of the seals folded over when I reinstalled. Took 30 seconds to fix and it's back to being quieter than my car, even on 35" KM2s.

Bump steer isn't bad at all on these. It's got front and rear track bars, so on major road disturbances they can get upset a bit, but it's not much different than most vehicles I've driven.

The wind noise seemed to be coming from the front of the door on the driver's side (normally passenger's side - this was a RHD model), at the window. Who knows.

It was also a 2 door, which I know makes it a bit more unstable. It seemed to get unsettled easier than anything I have driven in recent history, but a short wheel base, solid axle vehicle will definitely tend to do that. At least it didn't rattle at all.

Who knows...with how much of an after thought the interior design of the RHD model was (very little room around the pedals - trans tunnel, etc., was definitely meant for a LHD vehicle), I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of the RHD steering design itself :lol:

[bbaCJ8]

Who knows...with how much of an after thought the interior design of the RHD model was (very little room around the pedals - trans tunnel, etc., was definitely meant for a LHD vehicle), I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of the RHD steering design itself :lol:
Obviously they switch the direction of the front track bar to match the RHD draglink. I wonder if they switch the rear also? I seriously hope so, because it would make for some funky handling having the front axle push left on bumps and the rear push right, it would tend to cock the chassis slightly each time. We've got a RHD Brute downstairs, I'll check on that(not that it's the same).

Edit:
Brain fart. Front and rear track bars run opposite from the factory. Probably for the balancing effect so the chassis feels straight over bumps. Both ends are switched on our RHD Brute, I assume they did on JL also so that wouldn't be the issue.

[xj_man_646]

Yeah, I thought they ran opposite directions from factory. I didn't even think to look at this one. I assume it is the same as the Brute you looked at...sadly, it is gone. I'll try to remember next time I see one

[BanditXJ]

if they brought the REAL Cherokee (XJ) back w/ the updates the JL received :eek:



Man... if only. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[xj_man_646]

Man... if only. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

No kidding. Good lord that would be amazing :yes:

[Sir Sam]

Man... if only. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Realistically, how much would you be willing to pay for a "new" XJ?

[xj_man_646]

Realistically, how much would you be willing to pay for a "new" XJ?

I'd probably be interested if MSRP was in the 30-40k range, honestly. 2001 MSRP was in the mid-20's, so I don't think that is too far off assuming it would be equally as loaded with 'features' as the rest of today's vehicles.

[6DoF]

4dr wrangler = XJ with drop top

[xj_man_646]

4dr wrangler = XJ with drop top

Except that it isn't.

Body on frame? Yawn. :lol:

[bbaCJ8]

4dr wrangler = XJ with drop top
Agreed. It's got everything the XJ ever did, is roomier, quieter, faster, better MPG, and better features. The same people begging for the XJ back would never buy one, just like most of those people asking for a Jeep truck won't buy one either. They'll just complain that it's too long for offroad or too short for a practical truck.

[Dennis]

4dr wrangler = XJ with drop top

Except that it isn't.

Body on frame? Yawn. :lol:

Agreed. It's got everything the XJ ever did, is roomier, quieter, faster, better MPG, and better features. The same people begging for the XJ back would never buy one, just like most of those people asking for a Jeep truck won't buy one either. They'll just complain that it's too long for offroad or too short for a practical truck.
Only thing the JK/JL unlimited is missing over an XJ is a straight six engine.

[xj_man_646]

Only thing the JK/JL unlimited is missing over an XJ is a straight six engine.

You're forgetting the most important part of the XJ.

The unibody! It simply would not have existed as a body-on-frame vehicle IMO.

[Dennis]

You're forgetting the most important part of the XJ.

The unibody! It simply would not have existed as a body-on-frame vehicle IMO.I am discounting the uni-body from my list of missed items. It was built as a unibody for cost/weight savings. I don't see it as a real positive or negative, just don't miss it. The Wrangler Unlimited has filled its place in the line up nicely. Price-point is really the only place that it fails as a replacement for the XJ, but with the sales numbers the last five years or so, that does not seem like even it is much of an issue.

And the XJ's direct competition at or near its introduction, the S-10 Blazer and Ford Bronco, (could throw in the 4Runner and eventually Pathfinder) were all body on frame. I didn't see too many consumers thinking, "oh, I just want the unibody one".

[nblehm]

I think why Xj's are popular are because they are simple as you can get, easy to work on and reliable (at least that's why I own one) No new car now days is going to be simple. Just not going to happen.

[Dennis]

I think why Xj's are popular are because they are simple as you can get, easy to work on and reliable (at least that's why I own one) No new car now days is going to be simple. Just not going to happen.
Goes for a first gen S-10 as well. OBD-II has eliminated simplicity, but I have to say my JK is more reliable than the XJ was at this point. (Knock on wood) But I have a heavy foot, so body on frame might be an advantage for me.

[nblehm]

Goes for a first gen S-10 as well. OBD-II has eliminated simplicity, but I have to say my JK is more reliable than the XJ was at this point. (Knock on wood) But I have a heavy foot, so body on frame might be an advantage for me.

Eh I'd argue that. Gm engine management sucked in the 90s the 4wd was garbage with the vacuum actuators. The interiors fell apart. (I grew up a GM is the best kid) the Cherokee engine management imo is simple, the 4wd is a lever (for getting the cad garb). I drive a lot of jks at work. I prefer my Cherokee (and 10 years ago I used to hate on them so hard)

[Dennis]

Eh I'd argue that. Gm engine management sucked in the 90s the 4wd was garbage with the vacuum actuators. The interiors fell apart. (I grew up a GM is the best kid) the Cherokee engine management imo is simple, the 4wd is a lever (for getting the cad garb). I drive a lot of jks at work. I prefer my Cherokee (and 10 years ago I used to hate on them so hard)Yeah, but our first 4.0 cooling system bit the big one. 1980s technology had tons to wish for, but it led to what great engines we have today. :chug:

[xj_man_646]

but tightening emissions and fuel economy requirements led to what great engines we have today. :chug:

fify :)

[Dennis]

fify :)
Same thing, just rephrased.

[xj_man_646]

I believe we would still be running with carburetors if the emissions and fuel economy regulations had not tightened. They have been the main driver to the major technological advancements in gasoline and diesel engines in the last 40 years.

[Sir Sam]

I believe we would still be running with carburetors if the emissions and fuel economy regulations had not tightened. They have been the main driver to the major technological advancements in gasoline and diesel engines in the last 40 years.

Agreed.

Same thing for how much safer new vehicles are.

Bitch and moan about the fed gov and EPA putting their hands on Auto regs, but fact of the matter is that cars have gotten better overall because of.

Look at a 1990 Camry vs a 2010 camry. Night and day differences in terms of fuel economy, safety, etc etc.

[Dennis]

I believe we would still be running with carburetors if the emissions and fuel economy regulations had not tightened. They have been the main driver to the major technological advancements in gasoline and diesel engines in the last 40 years.At some point there would have been a point that they needed to move on technologically to get more power than last years' model in order to make sales. Seems that carbs were close to their limit. The regulations just steered everyone in the right directions speeding up the change. And folks say the government isn't good for anything.

[nblehm]

And folks say the government isn't good for anything.

It isnt.


You folks are out of your minds with the carb talk. Drivability alone would be pushing technology. Nobody is going to want to talk on their iPhone and have to pull a choke cable to get their new car to start. (Over the top example) Are they pushing to meet all these standards yes, they would still be making new advancements without them, maybe just a different direction or slower pace.

1990 Camry vs 2018 Camry, I bet the price points are pretty big too.

[Dennis]

It isnt.


You folks are out of your minds with the carb talk. Drivability alone would be pushing technology. Nobody is going to want to talk on their iPhone and have to pull a choke cable to get their new car to start. (Over the top example) Are they pushing to meet all these standards yes, they would still be making new advancements without them, maybe just a different direction or slower pace.

1990 Camry vs 2018 Camry, I bet the price points are pretty big too.You wouldn't have much to see on the iPhone if the government's DARPA-NET hadn't come first.

No one doubts that technology would still be making cars better. But, the clean air push undoubtedly made these changes faster, and in the long run cheaper for the private sector to make thanks to the government funded R&D. America would suck without our private industry, would also suck without our strong democratic government. It is a pretty good partnership overall. Worst system of government and economy, except for all the others.
:chug:

[Sir Sam]

I'd probably be interested if MSRP was in the 30-40k range, honestly. 2001 MSRP was in the mid-20's, so I don't think that is too far off assuming it would be equally as loaded with 'features' as the rest of today's vehicles.

Wait, you want an XJ with all of todays features? Thats a JK.

Todays "features" include side impact airbags, side impact crash zones, etc.

You either want an XJ as it was built 17 years ago or you don't.

Plus, haven many of you could even say you would pay $25k for a new XJ exactly as a fully loaded limited 2001 was optioned?

You'd look at it and go, this is all I get for $25k? The JK has more power, better fuel economy, better safety, more interior room, is quieter, etc etc for marginally more money.

BS people would buy that.

[Dennis]

Wait, you want an XJ with all of todays features? Thats a JK.

Todays "features" include side impact airbags, side impact crash zones, etc.

You either want an XJ as it was built 17 years ago or you don't.

Plus, haven many of you could even say you would pay $25k for a new XJ exactly as a fully loaded limited 2001 was optioned?

You'd look at it and go, this is all I get for $25k? The JK has more power, better fuel economy, better safety, more interior room, is quieter, etc etc for marginally more money.

BS people would buy that.XJs seemed to have gotten cheaper relative to inflation as the years went on. Shoot, my 2001 Limited was $2K cheaper than my 1989 Laredo, similarly equipped. By now, if they had kept building the XJ, through found savings over the years they could theoretically be sold as the cheapest new vehicle in America. And the reviews would all be that for just $12K you can get a relic from 1983....

[Sir Sam]

XJs seemed to have gotten cheaper relative to inflation as the years went on. Shoot, my 2001 Limited was $2K cheaper than my 1989 Laredo, similarly equipped. By now, if they had kept building the XJ, through found savings over the years they could theoretically be sold as the cheapest new vehicle in America. And the reviews would all be that for just $12K you can get a relic from 1983....

They still cost about 12-14k in China. But they had to update them to remain competitive.

[Cobound]

Yeah, the JK is the new XJ. Only seriously better!

On that note, picking up a 17 year old XJ tonight :lol:

[bbaCJ8]

At some point there would have been a point that they needed to move on technologically to get more power than last years' model in order to make sales. Seems that carbs were close to their limit. The regulations just steered everyone in the right directions speeding up the change. And folks say the government isn't good for anything.
Yeah, carburetors are gutless:lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZGEnFWuo_A

[Dennis]

Yeah, carburetors are gutless:lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZGEnFWuo_A:roflmao:

[6DoF]

At some point there would have been a point that they needed to move on technologically to get more power than last years' model in order to make sales. Seems that carbs were close to their limit. The regulations just steered everyone in the right directions speeding up the change. And folks say the government isn't good for anything.

it's possible to get a carb'd vehicle to pass today's emissions regulations ... you just have to hand tune every one coming off the line for the exact environment that it'll be driven. EFI was just easier to do it, and offered more consistent performance for the customer over longer periods of time.

[Dennis]

it's possible to get a carb'd vehicle to pass today's emissions regulations ... you just have to hand tune every one coming off the line for the exact environment that it'll be driven. EFI was just easier to do it, and offered more consistent performance for the customer over longer periods of time.Exactly. Carbs give you power, can give you tons of power, they just can't be made to give you consistent maintenance-free power. Fuel injections was inevitable, but regulations speed up the process and pointed it in a good directions.

[Dennis]

FI has also provided drivability that was sorely lacking in high performance carbed vehicles.

[CJ74U2NV]

Carbs give you power, can give you tons of power, they just can't be made to give you consistent maintenance-free power.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/dude-what-the-9jz8p1.jpg

I have 2 vehicles with carbs. I haven't had to touch the carburetors on them in decades. I've never heard of anyone saying "I need to fix that carburetor again".

Carbs might not be "fine tunable" like FI, don't work on steep inclines and can't adjust on the go to the environment. But they're very, very dependable. Got a dead battery? My carb & mechanical fuel pump still works.

Computer controlled FI is for two reasons:
1. More difficult for the average shade tree mechanic to work on.
2. Government regulations.

[Dennis]

Decades? Really?

[xj_man_646]

it's possible to get a carb'd vehicle to pass today's emissions regulations ... you just have to hand tune every one coming off the line for the exact environment that it'll be driven. EFI was just easier to do it, and offered more consistent performance for the customer over longer periods of time.

Exactly. Carbs give you power, can give you tons of power, they just can't be made to give you consistent maintenance-free power. Fuel injections was inevitable, but regulations speed up the process and pointed it in a good directions.

You would be VERY hard pressed to get a carbureted vehicle to meet emissions today. The HC and NOx emissions standards are so close to zero that the level of AFR control required to meet the standards is unattainable with a carb.

This is, literally, the reason EFI became a thing.

In the 1970s and 1980s in the U.S. and Japan, the respective federal governments imposed increasingly strict exhaust emission regulations. During that time period, the vast majority of gasoline-fueled automobile and light truck engines did not use fuel injection. To comply with the new regulations, automobile manufacturers often made extensive and complex modifications to the engine carburetor(s). While a simple carburetor system is cheaper to manufacture than a fuel injection system, the more complex carburetor systems installed on many engines in the 1970s were much more costly than the earlier simple carburetors. To more easily comply with emissions regulations, automobile manufacturers began installing fuel injection systems in more gasoline engines during the late 1970s.

[Blue XJ]

FI has also provided drivability that was sorely lacking in high performance carbed vehicles.

I will agree with that part. I had a very modified carb on my hotrod, it was a bear to drive until the engine was warm, and even then it worked best at heavy throttle inputs. I switch to FI and love it, best money I ever spent on the car, engine drives exactly like my daily driver now, and it really woke up the part throttle inputs.

[Dennis]

I will agree with that part. I had a very modified carb on my hotrod, it was a bear to drive until the engine was warm, and even then it worked best at heavy throttle inputs. I switch to FI and love it, best money I ever spent on the car, engine drives exactly like my daily driver now, and it really woke up the part throttle inputs.:chug: Driving them back to back, the difference between a brand new 1990 4.2 YJ and a brand new 1991 4.0 YJ is what taught me the advantages and disadvantages as a 20 year old. Before that I had thought it was just old car vs. new car differences. I knew the carbed exotics of the time had more power than the US F.I. cars, but hadn't realized the drivability difference. There is something special though about an old pre-emissions carbed sports car. The sounds, the smells. Then you take a long turn too hard and the thing sputters at the apex.... :lol:

[ct90YJ]

try driving a 4.2 jeep from Denver @ 5,280 elevation to 11,000+ feet in elevation above Leadville and tell me you don't love FI.

[Dennis]

try driving a 4.2 jeep from Denver @ 5,280 elevation to 11,000+ feet in elevation above Leadville and tell me you don't love FI.:chug:

[Cobound]

Ha, yeah...the differences are pretty clear out west. I have buddies that wouldn't go back to CO wheeling w/ me cuz they hadn't updated their Jeeps to FI yet.

My Harley is carbed...choke to start, sounds pretty tits...but the drivability of a fuel injected Harley is soooooo much better!

Either way, back on track...I don't see the prices of the used market going down any time soon. And, having just walked into a Jeep dealership the other day, they had two '18 model Rubicons on the floor...one JK and one JL...there was a $10k difference in them :eek:

Anyway, the same JK we bought in '14 was marked up $12k more for the '18 JL. I'll pass...but I do see them starting to appear on the roads, so they're selling.

[Dennis]

Ha, yeah...the differences are pretty clear out west. I have buddies that wouldn't go back to CO wheeling w/ me cuz they hadn't updated their Jeeps to FI yet.

My Harley is carbed...choke to start, sounds pretty tits...but the drivability of a fuel injected Harley is soooooo much better!

Either way, back on track...I don't see the prices of the used market going down any time soon. And, having just walked into a Jeep dealership the other day, they had two '18 model Rubicons on the floor...one JK and one JL...there was a $10k difference in them :eek:

Anyway, the same JK we bought in '14 was marked up $12k more for the '18 JL. I'll pass...but I do see them starting to appear on the roads, so they're selling.JL prices will settle in 18 months. I suspect that JKs will hold value for years to come, just as TJs did for the first 5+ years after the JK was introduced. But five years from now, value will take a moderate plunge.

[Cobound]

OH, have you priced a TJ lately? Cuz, uh, they are insane, too :eek:

[Dennis]

OH, have you priced a TJ lately? Cuz, uh, they are insane, too :eek:https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listings/jeep/wrangler/year-1997-2006/
Yup, silly prices, still 35-55% of original MSRP, but five years ago they seemed to be 45%-70% of MSRP. Silly how much folks are asking for YJs too. I still think JKs willl hold 75%-85% of their value or more for the next five years or so, then the 3.8s will drop first, followed by a dip for the 3.6s. Will still hold their value better than a Benz or Rolls.

[Cobound]

75-85 might be a stretch, but they will def hold in the 60-75 range...it's insane! 3.8 w/ the old interior first, 07-10, then the 11, sole year w/ new interior and 3.8.

Yeah, we sold our Wrangler X for $13,800 (of course, not what I paid) and new it was probably barely $19-20 :eek:

Now that I think of it, we got 65% trade in on our '08 w/ 105k!

[Sir Sam]

I have 2 vehicles with carbs. I haven't had to touch the carburetors on them in decades. I've never heard of anyone saying "I need to fix that carburetor again".

Seriously? "gotta get another carb rebuild kit"


But they're very, very dependable. Got a dead battery? My carb & mechanical fuel pump still works.

A dead battery is a problem for any vehicle when starting it, so it doesn't really matter that way.

And otherwise, the fuel injection is much much more reliable day in and day out for starting a vehicle.


Computer controlled FI is for two reasons:
1. More difficult for the average shade tree mechanic to work on.

Easier for someone with a little knowledge to properly investigate instead of throwing parts at it. But then again most people who have issues with using new technology to work with newer cars are likely some sort of technological troglodyte who "can't work the computer"


2. Government regulations.

Yup, emissions regs from the government pushed the need for better fuel control, the solution was FI. And without it we would have smog like China. I like clean air and being able to breath.

This country would be much more of a "**** hole" without such standards than it is.

[Dennis]

75-85 might be a stretch, but they will def hold in the 60-75 range...it's insane! 3.8 w/ the old interior first, 07-10, then the 11, sole year w/ new interior and 3.8.

Yeah, we sold our Wrangler X for $13,800 (of course, not what I paid) and new it was probably barely $19-20 :eek:

Now that I think of it, we got 65% trade in on our '08 w/ 105k!Was looking at an '06 TJ Unlimited Rubicon w 110K mile a few months ago. MSRP was $29,500, bet the invoice was $25K. Guy was asking $19K, and got it in three days. Silly.

[Cobound]

Yeah, those are going for mad money, ridiculous!

[6DoF]

Was looking at an '06 TJ Unlimited Rubicon w 110K mile a few months ago. MSRP was $29,500, bet the invoice was $25K. Guy was asking $19K, and got it in three days. Silly.

that was back when you could get a high-end jeep for under 30 ... to be fair though, i'd rather have that 06 TJL Rubi than a similarly priced used stock JK, so the money must be worth it.

[Dennis]

that was back when you could get a high-end jeep for under 30 ... to be fair though, i'd rather have that 06 TJL Rubi than a similarly priced used stock JK, so the money must be worth it.I got my '13 JK Unlimited for a touch under 30. Sport, not Rubi or Sahara though. I bet after Labor Day, JLs will be selling well under MSRP. So high 30s for a lightly equipped Rubi or Sahara, low 30s for a Sport. Not bad for over a decade after the discontinuation of the TJ.

I would really like a TJL Rubi, but the JKU is so much better with a family of tweens/soon to be teens.

[Cobound]

Oh, those prices aren't going to drop as quick as you think they will...not until all the new JKs are gone. And they will still be mid to high 30s for anything under a $45-55k Rubi.

We got our '08 Sahara for under $23k, smoking deal, new off the floor but they wanted it gone, sat for 15 months. Our '14 Rubi was in the low $40s and they weren't willing to deal at all, but gave me what I thought was a solid trade on a used Sahara with 105k on it, like $15.5k. Couldn't argue w/ that trade...anyway.

Yeah, I'd love a TJL, but they just don't fall into the meets my needs category at the moment.

Drove the JK to work today, got my half doors on...I need to go get a quote on paint for them, take them from green to color matched Anvil :rock:

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32405629_928279460220_7415280445501210624_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&oh=741fb1420580612ddfd19514d51a3518&oe=5B7D8303

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32366338_928279505130_6685549739380834304_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&oh=40f6bb8ee8c5545705f5353554ea2206&oe=5B90F097

[Dennis]

Are those MOPAR doors or knock offs? I need some for the rear at least.

[Cobound]

They are Savvy Off Road doors. Would LOVE the Mopar, but holy spendy!! These are aluminum, lots of leg and side room since they are basically just a skin, pretty good fit, but no seals. I have the TJ style mirrors and have Bestop uppers as well, but I really don't foresee using those, since these don't seal it's really just a half door driving option, rather not put my soft top or use w/ my hard, but anyway.

I stole them from a guy that sold his JKU for a 2 door and didn't need them any more. He had JUST painted them, so they were already assembled. I'll probably leave the top rail black and paint the inner and outer Anvil.

Drove it down the highway last night and they were quiet...drove through some pothole filled streets into work today and they rattled a bit more. Not bad tho, they look sharp and it's nice driving w/ them. Full open is nice occasionally, I have mirrors for that too.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19959316_865432261510_8405921509164549087_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&oh=d5b22723f3c24805961c58adb1925a9a&oe=5B9C68C6

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19990189_865378319610_3903812274752471956_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&oh=306b5e7b1390c9c3ee6c6b0e1c4a8371&oe=5B805FB2

Those are saweet, love having them for a full door off ride!

[Dennis]

I am thinking just rears for the kiddos, so might splurge on the Mopars. Could keep them on all summer with uppers for rainy days and the soft pickup topper look. But yours look like a great option too. Thanks!

[Cobound]

Yeah, mine have no seals, so they are real nice for trail runs to protect the legs, something to lean on. I like going down the highway and open roads all open but the little protection you get from the wind is nice.

If you're serious, JCR Off Road makes a real nice set as well...little cheaper and ones I might have considered if I didn't pick these up "cheap"

[6DoF]

rear half doors on a JKU are the best look going by far i think.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/22/ef/ec22efb17983e30025d32ef5f42262f1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/b5/2b/55b52bedd93b896aa644b7834f97b0bd.jpg

[nblehm]

Yeah, those are going for mad money, ridiculous!

I think that about all jeeps now. Jks reselling for so much has made people lose their minds on the old stuff. You're clapped out yj isnt worth 15k

[Dennis]

rear half doors on a JKU are the best look going by far i think.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/22/ef/ec22efb17983e30025d32ef5f42262f1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/b5/2b/55b52bedd93b896aa644b7834f97b0bd.jpg
Exactly what I am thinking. :wifey: wants the kids to have some side protection in back. Can't disagree with her too much. Will put other carpool parents at ease too.

[Cobound]

Yeah, that's sharp. I really liked the kit on the Sandstorm concept this year w/ the rear doors making it look almost like a truck...I'd love a set on my JK to have that look!

Looks like the B pillar was cut and the door included a tall cover that blended so nicely...I really wish I would've gotten a pic of it open.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29572380_920130840120_6504981637138753673_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeG78uChgaYdIk1NDVnF6nEpG019GtLzqnXOxPurm JourkiRDLbSP9pvG2ilF-_T7uQrP0SiQiHd3YeNBAdwPia5BhOzH4v4sL7nTZo9fpNqMQ&_nc_pt=1&oh=eee23c6427b923c8f4eaa0e39bc50f3e&oe=5B8B832C

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29573059_920130725350_4689240910612183989_n.jpg?_n c_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeHkEFFjN15fpTQxCe6S2GS3crXWaR1zVuzysOLLO E88iTFh3xuv8GBOc2mEbcQ1_M52oQ1TeTYnSvA1l0dShWZx-SP4Xvu_VBaSUZDPbnhOvA&_nc_pt=1&oh=1c1c2993782f88edd4b40cc6c05997cb&oe=5B7C0189

I'd love a set of factory half doors, but I can't imagine finding a set at a reasonable price :squint:

[Dennis]

Yeah, that's sharp. I really liked the kit on the Sandstorm concept this year w/ the rear doors making it look almost like a truck...I'd love a set on my JK to have that look!

Looks like the B pillar was cut and the door included a tall cover that blended so nicely...I really wish I would've gotten a pic of it open.

I'd love a set of factory half doors, but I can't imagine finding a set at a reasonable price :squint:
That is cool! The publicity and magazine pics did not show that those are doors. Neat! But those seats look like something stolen from a Disney World ride.

The doors won't be cheap, but they are side impact certified. I'll just have to go one less Savile Row tailored suit this year. ;)

[6DoF]

also, this is kinda neat, but i bet kind of annoying ... detachable b-pillar kit

https://genright.com/products/jeep-jk-detachable-b-pillar-kit.html

https://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-cn6mxlx/products/1217/images/3007/bpillar-indexing-1200__03022.1500053033.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

[bbaCJ8]

That seems safe.

Edit: Nevermind, clicked the link and saw that it's meant for use with a full cage.

[Dennis]

That seems safe.

Edit: Nevermind, clicked the link and saw that it's meant for use with a full cage.
From an engineer's perspective, is an aftermarket full cage safer on the street than the factory safety cage? I would assume it is for most off road roll overs, but how about high speed impacts with other vehicles or trees?

[6DoF]

race cars crash with full cages all the time in rally or street courses, there's a reason they are class mandatory. the big difference is if you have a full cage the chances are you are full strapped to it, vs the DOT convenience belt and flat seat that lets you move around a lot more. i'll take a cage n 4pt over airbag n ratchet belt any day in a crash. my guess is you were more thinking about the crumple zone effect, but the main goal is to still have the drivers compartment as stiff as possible so that it's the LAST thing to crumple.

[bbaCJ8]

Matt is right. The extremities of vehicles are made to crumple and cave, minimizing energy transfer into the passenger compartment. Hell, there are bars specifically placed for tires and bumpers to crash into and buckle the frame, rather than being pushing into the passenger footwell. The sides and passenger compartment are made to be rigid and protective, especially the lower portion and frame on something like a Wrangler. None of that is compromised much here, and the added structure from the full cage, assuming it's tied in properly to the body and frame, will make the passenger compartment safer. Factory roofs, cages, and "sport bars" are made to protect the passengers once. They mostly hold up enough for the passengers to survive, then they go to the scrap yard. Aftermarket setups like this are made to protect and keep going whenever possible. If it's rigid enough to do that, logic says that it's rigid enough to help more in all forms of impact. The issue would come in more with stuff like engine cages, chassis stiffening, monstrous bumpers with long frame tie-ins, etc. If they don't allow the chassis to crumple and cave, or in extreme cases prevent air bags from deploying, then the forces and impacts are being transferred to the passenger compartment and its contents. Watch a youtube video of crash testing Smart cars. They hold up great crashing into a barrier at 60mph. The car barely takes any damage. Since it's tiny and rigid with very little crumple zone, all that energy instead gets transferred to the occupants. No thanks. That's why the giant steel boats of yesteryear weren't nearly as safe as newer vehicles, despite what people think.

[Blue XJ]

also, this is kinda neat, but i bet kind of annoying ... detachable b-pillar kit

https://genright.com/products/jeep-jk-detachable-b-pillar-kit.html

https://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-cn6mxlx/products/1217/images/3007/bpillar-indexing-1200__03022.1500053033.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

That really cleans up the lines of the 4 door, I like the look of it, but that seems like a lot of work to install, just for a look. Is there an actual benefit from it or does it fall into the angry eyes category?

[Dennis]

Matt is right. The extremities of vehicles are made to crumple and cave, minimizing energy transfer into the passenger compartment. Hell, there are bars specifically placed for tires and bumpers to crash into and buckle the frame, rather than being pushing into the passenger footwell. The sides and passenger compartment are made to be rigid and protective, especially the lower portion and frame on something like a Wrangler. None of that is compromised much here, and the added structure from the full cage, assuming it's tied in properly to the body and frame, will make the passenger compartment safer. Factory roofs, cages, and "sport bars" are made to protect the passengers once. They mostly hold up enough for the passengers to survive, then they go to the scrap yard. Aftermarket setups like this are made to protect and keep going whenever possible. If it's rigid enough to do that, logic says that it's rigid enough to help more in all forms of impact. The issue would come in more with stuff like engine cages, chassis stiffening, monstrous bumpers with long frame tie-ins, etc. If they don't allow the chassis to crumple and cave, or in extreme cases prevent air bags from deploying, then the forces and impacts are being transferred to the passenger compartment and its contents. Watch a youtube video of crash testing Smart cars. They hold up great crashing into a barrier at 60mph. The car barely takes any damage. Since it's tiny and rigid with very little crumple zone, all that energy instead gets transferred to the occupants. No thanks. That's why the giant steel boats of yesteryear weren't nearly as safe as newer vehicles, despite what people think.:chug::thumbsup:
Thanks now just have to convince the :wifey: and myself that the cost of a full cage is worth the expense to remove the B-pillar for a better look. :)

[6DoF]

That really cleans up the lines of the 4 door, I like the look of it, but that seems like a lot of work to install, just for a look. Is there an actual benefit from it or does it fall into the angry eyes category?

less chance to munch it on a tree or mountain side off road. if you are trying to protect a rig and keep it clean, that one upper point is HIGHLY vulnerable.

:chug::thumbsup:
Thanks now just have to convince the :wifey: and myself that the cost of a full cage is worth the expense to remove the B-pillar for a better look. :)

my TJ cage only cost like $250 ... but there might have been an hour or 2 of labor involved :roflmao:

[Cobound]

The GenRight cage is what I'd prefer, with the B pillar delete kit...but EXPENSIVE and time consuming!! I'll likely not go that route. The Rock Hard cage is probably more realistic, and just leave the B pillar alone.

I've seen this in person and have wanted it for as long as I can recall...but damn they don't come cheap. And if you get a shop that's never done one before to do it for you, you're paying added hours for their learning time.

[6DoF]

The GenRight cage is what I'd prefer, with the B pillar delete kit...but EXPENSIVE and time consuming!!

how on earth are they going to charge $3000 for a optioned DIY cage kit that doesn't go to the drivers floor or even tie into the frame?!?!?!?!?! :eek: that is some horse ****, cuz you could buy a bender, a welder, and all the tube for less.

note to self: find someone with a JK, figure out a cage, and sell them installed for $$$$$$

[Blue XJ]

The GenRight cage is what I'd prefer, with the B pillar delete kit...but EXPENSIVE and time consuming!! I'll likely not go that route. The Rock Hard cage is probably more realistic, and just leave the B pillar alone.

I've seen this in person and have wanted it for as long as I can recall...but damn they don't come cheap. And if you get a shop that's never done one before to do it for you, you're paying added hours for their learning time.

Is the rockhard kit the clamp on one? My buddy had that in his TJ that rolled. The bars did not come apart, but they did rotate on each other when the clamps slid.

[Cobound]

how on earth are they going to charge $3000 for a optioned DIY cage kit that doesn't go to the drivers floor or even tie into the frame?!?!?!?!?! :eek: that is some horse ****, cuz you could buy a bender, a welder, and all the tube for less.

note to self: find someone with a JK, figure out a cage, and sell them installed for $$$$$$

As with anything, you pay for their precise bends, quality, etc, etc. Yeah, I can't justify that cost, I'd just go have someone local make it, if that was the case. Of course, this would take less time, go where it's supposed to, you know the drill.

Also, to tie into the frame, there are very few that do, that I'm aware. Yes, while that would be ideal, these cages hold up to what it is people are using them for.

Is the rockhard kit the clamp on one? My buddy had that in his TJ that rolled. The bars did not come apart, but they did rotate on each other when the clamps slid.

Yes, that's the one. I considered one in my XJ, until I rolled it w/o one...then got out of that game. I've seen some rigs after a roll w/ this cage and it's provided more protection than stock...the price is reasonable and it's also fit well enough to DIY. Longshot at best for me at the moment...

[6DoF]

As with anything, you pay for their precise bends, quality, etc, etc. Yeah, I can't justify that cost, I'd just go have someone local make it, if that was the case. Of course, this would take less time, go where it's supposed to, you know the drill.

Also, to tie into the frame, there are very few that do, that I'm aware. Yes, while that would be ideal, these cages hold up to what it is people are using them for.

agreed ... that's why the TJ isn't tied in. it very well might be at some point, but that's a much later project.