Balancing Tires

[zjwrekkr]

So my dad had a vibration on his truck. Balanced tires same problem. Bought new tires same problem. Had them rebalance after a couple thousand, same problem. Had the driveshaft balanced, same. Had the tires road force balanced, same. Had all the brakes calipers rotors removed and checked axle alignment, same problem. Finally the dealer called HQ. They said to balance the tires by putting the wheel weights down the centerline of the rim, not on inside/outside. Had this done and it solved the problem. Any you guys experience this? Any thoughts how this would resolve the issue? My only thought would be that it some how changed the harmonic frequency.....

[6DoF]

usually the tire machine will let you choose if you want wights on one side, both sides, or stick-on in the wheel and it will adjust the analysis for that.

that's crazy though that the tire shop (2 different shops?) couldn't get em close enough. what size are they?

[zjwrekkr]

3 different shops he had it to.
The vibration seemed to only be from the reverend too.
What ever stock size on '16 ram 4x4 is...

[Cobound]

My rims are balanced this way, in my Ram and my JK. It's just how they did them...man, if that isn't covered under warranty that would be a freaking spendy nightmare :mad:

[Blue XJ]

My rims are balanced this way, in my Ram and my JK. It's just how they did them...man, if that isn't covered under warranty that would be a freaking spendy nightmare :mad:

That's how mine are always balanced too, Ram, Jeep, Duster. The Jeep and the Duster get aluminum duct tape over them as well to make sure they don't fall off as well.

[nblehm]

So they just static balanced instead of dynamic balanced them? Interesting.

[freerider15]

So they just static balanced instead of dynamic balanced them? Interesting.

This, I would put money on it the tire shop just didn't balance them properly.

Static or dynamic, it should be balance. The wheel weights on the lip of the wheels is a better balancing than the sticky weights on the inside of the wheel.

Hell, I balanced my 35" MTRs that got wheeled heavily, and got them within no more than 0.50oz per side, if not usually 0.25 or dead on 0.0.

I'd just say...lazy ass tire shop.

[xj_man_646]

This, I would put money on it the tire shop just didn't balance them properly.

Static or dynamic, it should be balance. The wheel weights on the lip of the wheels is a better balancing than the sticky weights on the inside of the wheel.

Hell, I balanced my 35" MTRs that got wheeled heavily, and got them within no more than 0.50oz per side, if not usually 0.25 or dead on 0.0.

I'd just say...lazy ass tire shop.

Did you even read the original post? It is very obviously an issue beyond a lazy tire shop :lol:. And obviously, in this case, sticky weights on the middle of the inside of the wheel wasn't worse, since it vibrated worse with the weights on the lip(s).

Balanced tires same problem. Bought new tires same problem. Had them rebalance after a couple thousand, same problem. Had the driveshaft balanced, same. Had the tires road force balanced, same.... Finally the dealer called HQ. They said to balance the tires by putting the wheel weights down the centerline of the rim, not on inside/outside. Had this done and it solved the problem.

1) It does not seem like he was taking it to any run of the mill tire shop. A dealership should know what they're doing when it comes to these things!
2) The dealer probably lost more money in time dicking with the same vehicle coming back than they made off the original tire purchase.
3) There is no reason to believe they screwed up conventional balancing 4 times, and got it right on the first try with sticky weights.

[freerider15]

Did you even read the original post? It is very obviously an issue beyond a lazy tire shop.

Uhhh yeah...

"They said to balance the tires by putting the wheel weights down the centerline of the rim, not on inside/outside."

Now let me ask you...how much experience do you have in a tire shop?

I've got a bit.

Wheel weights centered, or inside the wheel like that, are never as good as those on the lip. We proved that many times over. Then again, I worked at a shop that cared about what we sent out the door.

If I told you a steering stabilizer cures death wobble, what would you say? :lol:

Proper techs would have broken down each tire, and rotated it on the wheel if there were balancing issues. Upon that, we would have also run a road force test.

We would have found that either:
- The tire needs to be replaced, as it was bad from the get go
- The wheel needs replaced (either bent, or somehow mis-manufactured)
- The tire needed rotated and properly balanced on the wheel (not too uncommon).

:f2:

[freerider15]

1) It does not seem like he was taking it to any run of the mill tire shop. A dealership should know what they're doing when it comes to these things!
2) The dealer probably lost more money in time dicking with the same vehicle coming back than they made off the original tire purchase.
3) There is no reason to believe they screwed up conventional balancing 4 times, and got it right on the first try with sticky weights.

If you really believe this, I've got some great beach front property in Kansas for sale :roflmao:

Having been a tire monkey, everything you've written above, we saw...enough.

We "rebalanced" dealer "balances" seemingly daily.

They don't give two licks, since it pays them next to nothing.

They don't specialize in that, they just want to slam it in and send it out the door.

As someone who has known a few peeps who've worked for stealerships...they always told family, friends, to come to us

[jeepkid05]

Have they put the tire in question on different corners of the car? Do you think it’s a possibility that a belt has shifted on the tire?

I had a set of brand new BFG at ko2 on my old work truck. And they couldn’t get them balanced. Same sort of story as above. Weights. Then Road force.... I finally told them which tire it was coming from. They put it up and spun it on the lift, and you could see the slight imperfection on one tire. Just something to think about.

[nblehm]

Have they put the tire in question on different corners of the car? Do you think it’s a possibility that a belt has shifted on the tire?

I had a set of brand new BFG at ko2 on my old work truck. And they couldn’t get them balanced. Same sort of story as above. Weights. Then Road force.... I finally told them which tire it was coming from. They put it up and spun it on the lift, and you could see the slight imperfection on one tire. Just something to think about.

A road force balancer should have caught that


Also lets be honest about discount and dealership kids mounting tires. Most of them are making 11 dollars an hour and don't give a ****. From the same employee pool. Justin your discount I would guess wad an exception to the norm.

[MBood82]

Have they put the tire in question on different corners of the car? Do you think it’s a possibility that a belt has shifted on the tire?

I had a set of brand new BFG at ko2 on my old work truck. And they couldn’t get them balanced. Same sort of story as above. Weights. Then Road force.... I finally told them which tire it was coming from. They put it up and spun it on the lift, and you could see the slight imperfection on one tire. Just something to think about.

When I put the Toyos on my truck I had a pretty bad vibration under certain conditions, especially when I pulled my trailer. It was pretty bad. I took it back and had it balanced a few times but was in the middle of moving so it took me a while until I got a chance to try again with a new shop.

A road force balancer should have caught that


Took it to a local shop that a friend worked at and he road force balanced the tires. Sure enough, one was obviously out of round, visible just when the tire was rotating, nevermind with force applied. Clearly the guys at the first shop weren't actually watching the tire. I got the tires warrantied out and it's been fine since.

[freerider15]

A road force balancer should have caught that


Also lets be honest about discount and dealership kids mounting tires. Most of them are making 11 dollars an hour and don't give a ****. From the same employee pool. Justin your discount I would guess wad an exception to the norm.

Yeah, there were some stores I know weren't as good.

But, when it comes to balancing tires and finding out, I'd take it to Discount before I'd EVER let Walmart, BigO, or pretty much any other box store touch them.

Outside of niche tire shops, It would be hard for me to believe many shops could/would do better. It does help that I knew a handful of people who worked at BigO, one who I still know is now a store manager or something.

Sadly, I think I'd take it to a place like Walmart before a dealership :lol:

[xj_man_646]

Uhhh yeah...

"They said to balance the tires by putting the wheel weights down the centerline of the rim, not on inside/outside."

Now let me ask you...how much experience do you have in a tire shop?

I've got a bit.

Wheel weights centered, or inside the wheel like that, are never as good as those on the lip. We proved that many times over. Then again, I worked at a shop that cared about what we sent out the door.

If I told you a steering stabilizer cures death wobble, what would you say? :lol:

Proper techs would have broken down each tire, and rotated it on the wheel if there were balancing issues. Upon that, we would have also run a road force test.

We would have found that either:
- The tire needs to be replaced, as it was bad from the get go
- The wheel needs replaced (either bent, or somehow mis-manufactured)
- The tire needed rotated and properly balanced on the wheel (not too uncommon).

:f2:

If you really believe this, I've got some great beach front property in Kansas for sale :roflmao:

Having been a tire monkey, everything you've written above, we saw...enough.

We "rebalanced" dealer "balances" seemingly daily.

They don't give two licks, since it pays them next to nothing.

They don't specialize in that, they just want to slam it in and send it out the door.

As someone who has known a few peeps who've worked for stealerships...they always told family, friends, to come to us

Dude...the manufacturer of the vehicle told them to do that with the wheel weights. It's obvious that there is something going on with vibrations in the wheel / tire in this specific case.

I've got 6 years and thousands of tire repairs, mounts, balances, etc. under my belt.

Of course a steering stabilizer doesn't cure death wobble.

They tried everything under the sun including multiple sets of tires. I don't get what else you would have done :confused:

Here, let me quote it again...
Balanced tires same problem. Bought new tires same problem. Had them rebalance after a couple thousand, same problem. Had the driveshaft balanced, same. Had the tires road force balanced, same. Had all the brakes calipers rotors removed and checked axle alignment, same problem. Finally the dealer called HQ. They said to balance the tires by putting the wheel weights down the centerline of the rim, not on inside/outside. Had this done and it solved the problem.
Buying new tires is a step beyond breaking each one down and rotating the tire on the rim and re-balancing.

Just recently Belle Tire tried selling me off on a set of tires for my Taurus, because of a vibration I could not find. Turns out it was a bent wheel...somehow they missed that during the re-balancing and alignment process. I caught it when I finally lifted that corner of the car in an attempt to find loose parts. Lots of tire shops employ idiots, I will give you that. But, in this case...there is no reason to believe that anyone would have been able to find / cure this specific issue without calling the manufacturer. Its something I've literally never heard of.

[JEEPJERK]

I always ran my 35in MTR's without balancing them at all. Never had any vibration.

[6DoF]

:lol:

[6DoF]

FWIW ... we've had great luck back in school with dumping a few hand fulls of airsoft BBs into a tire before mounting it. old bias 40s were oddly smooth. plastic doesn't make nearly as much noise, they don't stick together or clump, don't rust, etc.

[xj_man_646]

It was hit or miss for me and my 36's. Sometimes they would roll smoothly, sometimes they wouldn't. Not sure if it was a case of too many BB's, or not enough :dunno:

I have wondered how that method would work in a normally-sized radial tire.

[6DoF]

i found a company selling basically the plastic airsoft bbs specifically for tire balancing (at a greatly increased price) but their website listed the recommended amount to throw in what type/size of tire. i fully plan to throw a pile in my 40s for the YJ since i hope to drive it a little.

[freerider15]

Dude...the manufacturer of the vehicle told them to do that with the wheel weights.

Manufacturer of Vehicle =/= Manufacturer of Wheel (necessarily) =/= Manufacturer of Tire.

I will still 100% stand by the fact, and would put money on...the fact that if static balancing "solved" the problem, something is still fawked.

Static balancing, especially on anything over a 15" wheel...is sh*t.

A bandaid has been applied, and the actual issue was never solved.

EDIT: The only way tape (static) weights are superior, is because you can clump a sh*tload of them in one area. You can only stack so many weights on a lip before it starts throwing things off.

But, then again, if you'd hit that point in tape weights...the tire/wheel combo usually needs a closer look.

[freerider15]

i found a company selling basically the plastic airsoft bbs specifically for tire balancing (at a greatly increased price) but their website listed the recommended amount to throw in what type/size of tire. i fully plan to throw a pile in my 40s for the YJ since i hope to drive it a little.

I've been surprised by my 40" MTR stickies.

I've had them up over 50mph, still drives smooth, no unbalanced tire feeling.

The Iroks they replaced...not so much :lol:

[Cobound]

I tossed about 12-16 ounces in each of my 37's on my Scrambler w/ Rock Monster double beadlocks...never had an issue.

Just the cheap airsoft bb's, not that magic overpriced special stuff :lol:

[freerider15]

I've got some balancing beads I won in a raffle from H.D. Offroad (NAXJA Event).

They've been sitting on my shelf for like 3 years now :lol:

[jeepkid05]

Ive never used beads, although I’d like to.

[jeepkid05]

*anal beads*

[JEEPJERK]

How you doin'?

[nblehm]

Manufacturer of Vehicle =/= Manufacturer of Wheel (necessarily) =/= Manufacturer of Tire.

I will still 100% stand by the fact, and would put money on...the fact that if static balancing "solved" the problem, something is still fawked.

Static balancing, especially on anything over a 15" wheel...is sh*t.

A bandaid has been applied, and the actual issue was never solved.

EDIT: The only way tape (static) weights are superior, is because you can clump a sh*tload of them in one area. You can only stack so many weights on a lip before it starts throwing things off.

But, then again, if you'd hit that point in tape weights...the tire/wheel combo usually needs a closer look.

You can dynamic balance tires with stick on weights.

[jeepkid05]

How you doin'?

Really really good!

It’s good to be back.

How you doin?

[Blue XJ]

You can dynamic balance tires with stick on weights.


Maybe you can, maybe he can't? :confused:

[bbaCJ8]

i found a company selling basically the plastic airsoft bbs specifically for tire balancing (at a greatly increased price) but their website listed the recommended amount to throw in what type/size of tire. i fully plan to throw a pile in my 40s for the YJ since i hope to drive it a little.

I've been surprised by my 40" MTR stickies.

I've had them up over 50mph, still drives smooth, no unbalanced tire feeling.

The Iroks they replaced...not so much :lol:

Try them with nothing first. I'm on my second set of 40s with zero balancing and they ride great with no vibration. I've heard of others with the same results on the big radials.

[freerider15]

You can dynamic balance tires with stick on weights.

Oh yeah, we did plenty.

The usual problems one tends to run into on those cases:
1.) The offset of the wheel makes it so static is really only possible and/or its just enough attempting dynamic ends up with them too close together and it's moot anyway
2.) The wheel weights, even after rigorous cleaning, brushing, etc. don't want to stick to well (especially in the cold).
3.) You get them to stick, they seem rather secure (even after maybe using a heat gun to get the adhesive to really grab), and they get tossed off after X amount of miles due to adhesive failure, mudding, etc. etc.

I have stick on weights on the Raceline's on my F-350...but it's a 7.3, leafs, etc. I don't expect it to ride like glass (though it does ride pretty damn nice for the most part).

Try them with nothing first. I'm on my second set of 40s with zero balancing and they ride great with no vibration. I've heard of others with the same results on the big radials.

Yeah, not planning on doing anything on the rig. It doesn't see speed regularly enough for it to even be warranted. When it does see speed, it either drives just fine (on road), or its aired down and doesn't matter anyhow. Gotta love rallying across rocks in aired down 40's, on ORI's, that would normally destroy a regular rig :lol:

[bbaCJ8]

Yeah, not planning on doing anything on the rig. It doesn't see speed regularly enough for it to even be warranted. When it does see speed, it either drives just fine (on road), or its aired down and doesn't matter anyhow. Gotta love rallying across rocks in aired down 40's, on ORI's, that would normally destroy a regular rig :lol:
I was mostly talking to Matt, just quoted you because it was relevant. Mine is smooth as butter at 80mph, or at least as smooth as a 1 ton TJ on 40s can ever be.

[xj_man_646]

Manufacturer of Vehicle =/= Manufacturer of Wheel (necessarily) =/= Manufacturer of Tire.

I will still 100% stand by the fact, and would put money on...the fact that if static balancing "solved" the problem, something is still fawked.

Static balancing, especially on anything over a 15" wheel...is sh*t.

A bandaid has been applied, and the actual issue was never solved.

EDIT: The only way tape (static) weights are superior, is because you can clump a sh*tload of them in one area. You can only stack so many weights on a lip before it starts throwing things off.

But, then again, if you'd hit that point in tape weights...the tire/wheel combo usually needs a closer look.

For what its worth, in my time at the tire shop, I never placed pound-on weights on the outside of an aluminum rim. My boss didn't like it for his personal stuff, and carried it over to customer stuff. We never had a come-back. All aluminum wheels got pound-on weights on the inner lip only or stick on weights.

[Cobound]

This thread has gone far enough.

/thread

[xj_man_646]

This thread has gone far enough.

/thread

:banana:

[bbaCJ8]

This thread has gone far enough.

/thread
There's an actual tech thread on this website. Let it go as far as it wants to go.

[Nefarious]

https://i.redd.it/iaj4i7t5zfk01.png
https://pics.me.me/balance-my-tiresp-you-dont-have-to-do-that-thats-3303884.png

[Cobound]

There's an actual tech thread on this website. Let it go as far as it wants to go.

:roflmao:

OK, Ok, ok....continue at your own despair :chug:

[6DoF]

:lol:

the TJ front tires have a wobble to them that's getting worse, and i'm pretty sure it's the ****ty steel wheels bending AGAIN. i'm trying to keep from buying new 8-lug wheels adapters to install the beadlocks on the D30 ... but at some point wheel imbalance is the most annoying and noticeable thing around you!

also blows my mind that more places don't have road force balancing. now i gotta find a new shop again :bang:

[bbaCJ8]

:lol:

the TJ front tires have a wobble to them that's getting worse, and i'm pretty sure it's the ****ty steel wheels bending AGAIN.
Bending where? I beat the sh1t out of my steel wheels and they never missed a beat as far as straightness and balance. I had to hammer the bead lips back quite a few times but they never bent in a way that affected balance/wobble.

[xj_man_646]

Yeah, that is really surprising for a street queen.

[6DoF]

Bending where? I beat the sh1t out of my steel wheels and they never missed a beat as far as straightness and balance. I had to hammer the bead lips back quite a few times but they never bent in a way that affected balance/wobble.

Yeah, that is really surprising for a street queen.

That's what i would have expected to!

i already had two get bad enough that i needed to designate one spare only, and buy another. that was before the new rear axle and when i swapped on the beadlocks things got noticeably better again.

[xj_man_646]

So, where are you bending these wheels?

[6DoF]

So, where are you bending these wheels?

it's creating a wobble in them, twisting the mounting surface out of square with the wheel.