2013 Ram 1500 Laramie - 5.7L w/ code P1004 - Short Runner Valve

[Cobound]

So, it's thrown this code before, and now that it's no longer under warranty I need to figure it out so I'm not just constantly resetting it via my code reader.

Short Runner Valve
https://dodgeforum.com/how-tos/a/dodge-ram-2009-present-short-runner-valve-tsb-394660

What am I talking for work on this, anyone familiar? :dunno:

With that said, this is the longest I've ever kept a daily driver, looks like it's time to trade it in - that Gladiator needs to get here sooner than later :roflmao:

[xj_man_646]

Was your truck affected by the TSB in your link TB-18-016-09?

If so, and if it did not have the corrective actions performed, sounds like that could be your issue.

If not, it still sounds like the SRV itself crapped out. I kinda doubt its the PCM itself as I would suspect that both banks would be effected, but I do not know the wiring on that.

Looks like its about a $200 part plus labor...no idea on that but you could find out if you wanted to subscribe to alldata...$25/year is well worth it for my truck.

Not familiar with the repair procedure but I'm struggling to understand why this thing exists at all...if its so beneficial why didn't they design the intake system to use this air path all the time? :confused:

[Cobound]

I have other recall stuff being done on Tuesday, so I'll find out then.

What sucks is, I've had 2 exhaust manifold leaks repaired, one on each side, and thought my warranty went to 100k...well, nope, 5 years or 100k and I hit 5 years last April :banghead:

So, now it's all on me. Time to trade :lol:

All joking aside, I love this truck...and I've only had a few things done in any warranty timeframe - exhaust manifold leaks and a water pump. I have 99,550 on it right now...and wasn't planning on trading for the Gladiator even, wanted to save some money.

I'll have to dig into this, def want it fixed. My remote start hasn't worked all winter because of it, all summer either, from what I remember :squint:

[xj_man_646]

Yeah that makes sense...as soon as the check engine light (MIL) comes on, OEM remote start won't work (at least on Chrysler products that I'm familiar with...2011+).

It's funny...most issues I've had with my cars lately I can youtube a repair video for...there is nothing I can find for replacing this valve on a 5.7 Hemi :lol:

[Cobound]

Oh, even if it's reset, deleted, remote start won't work...hasn't worked for some time now since I reset it a long time ago. I'll just have to get it fixed and fully cleared.

[Cobound]

It has come and gone before too...two weeks ago it went off by itself.

Thought it might be a gas thing at first, filled up the tank and it disappeared...then it came back later. It's intermittent...but this time it's stayed for a couple days.

[champ]

You can get all the parts in TSB 18-003-10 for around $200. Assume a few hours tinkering in the garage and you could have it fixed in an afternoon.

Edit: looks like that TSB is for 2009 built vehicles only. Either way, without any circuit faults for the SRV and just P1004, I would assume the SRV only is at fault.

[Cobound]

2009-present, that was a quick initial search, I'll dig more into it.

[MBood82]

Not familiar with the repair procedure but I'm struggling to understand why this thing exists at all...if its so beneficial why didn't they design the intake system to use this air path all the time? :confused:

You are questioning using a variable length intake runner? Or just this design?

[xj_man_646]

You are questioning using a variable length intake runner? Or just this design?

From what I understand, this is not a variable length runner, but when this valve is open, it bypasses the intake runners all together and air goes directly to the cylinder heads.

The short runner valve is a bypass line that takes air from the plenum directly to the cylinder heads. This route is much shorter than going through the longer intake manifold

Maybe I don't understand it correctly, but why not make it the shortest run possible all the time?

[champ]

Maybe I don't understand it correctly, but why not make it the shortest run possible all the time?

Dem low speed torques. Dats why. :cool:

[xj_man_646]

Dem low speed torques. Dats why. :cool:
:dunno:

Everywhere I've read says that when these valves don't work, the engine feels low on power. Maybe there is some sort of fault reaction in the ECU which makes that more noticeable, but I still don't get it. There must be a reason these things aren't found on many other applications outside FCA :dunno:

[MBood82]

From what I understand, this is not a variable length runner, but when this valve is open, it bypasses the intake runners all together and air goes directly to the cylinder heads.

Maybe I don't understand it correctly, but why not make it the shortest run possible all the time?

:dunno:

Everywhere I've read says that when these valves don't work, the engine feels low on power. Maybe there is some sort of fault reaction in the ECU which makes that more noticeable, but I still don't get it. There must be a reason these things aren't found on many other applications outside FCA :dunno:

I had a hard time finding a description but it seemed to me that it was an actuator that changed the routing on the intake manifold. Reports also indicated a lack of top end power, not power across the range.

That said, regardless of the actual mechanism, if this is a valve that effectively bypasses the runners or if it's just an actuator that moves the flaps in the runners, it's still acting as a variable length intake manifold.

Manifold design has a big impact on the power production on an engine. In general, long, skinny intake runners increase the air velocity, which helps at low RPMs with getting a lot of air into the motor. However, at high RPMs they become restrictive, you can't get enough air into the motor anymore, the pressure drop is too high for the velocity.

However, if you made it so it breathed better at the high RPMs you'd lose the torque at the low RPM. A manifold with both runner designs that can actuate between them, typically with butterfly valves on a actuating rod, gets the best of both worlds.

So, in short, you don't want the valve stuck open all the time because of....

Dem low speed torques. Dats why. :cool:

A truck motor will lug around a lot better with long, skinny manifold runs!

[Blue XJ]

I have other recall stuff being done on Tuesday, so I'll find out then.

What sucks is, I've had 2 exhaust manifold leaks repaired, one on each side, and thought my warranty went to 100k...well, nope, 5 years or 100k and I hit 5 years last April :banghead:


My manifold studs broke too, I took it in to get fixed, had to wait 4 months to get into their heavy repair section. In that time the other side let go as well. He said it would have been about $850 if I had to pay for it out of pocket!!

[Cobound]

Exactly, which is why I was pissed that my warranty ran out in April (5 years) and not 100k. Since this April will be my 6th year owning it..and likely last, I didn't want to dump any money into it :banghead:

It's the longest I've ever owned a daily driver, and my first new vehicle. I was contemplating keeping it, also, so who knows. It'll have 100k on it before the month is over, and has been relatively trouble free, as I've mentioned. I have a good mechanic now, guy down the road that has done some things for me very reasonably...so if I can't get to it in my cold ass garage, I can drop it off w/ him and expect to not get raped like at a stealership.

I forget what they're doing on Tuesday, it's just standard 'got a card in the mail' type update stuff...I'm leaving the light on so they see it, maybe they find the TSB and it's covered. If not, well...they either tell me what it costs, maybe they hear the exhaust leak and want to tell me about it and that it'll cost $X...to which I'll say, thanks, but I got a guy.

I fuggin HATE stealerships...especially when they have multiple locations and they charge different for parts at each one...and gouge the piss out of you on repairs. I digress.....


The Gladiator comes out in April, April is my 6th year of owning it (March, actually now that I remember) and it might just be a fitting time :p My wife will kill me if I still have the JK tho, and another truck :lol:

Coincidence :dunno:

[champ]

Depends on how much you want to dive down the rabbit hole of a dealership service dept... but since it's a known issue, you may be able to either work something out with the service dept. directly, or possibly get FCA to cover a portion of the bill since you are fairly close to warranty end date and under the mileage limit.

YMMV

[nblehm]

My manifold studs broke too, I took it in to get fixed, had to wait 4 months to get into their heavy repair section. In that time the other side let go as well. He said it would have been about $850 if I had to pay for it out of pocket!!

I fix those on the reg. As long as it's not on a 2500 ram or jeep those manifolds are wicked easy. And the studs usually just spin out.

[Cobound]

Light went off on its own this weekend...after I filled up, probably coincidence...but it’s not on now.

[xj_man_646]

How many drive cycles after filling up? The system needs to see 3 trouble free drive cycles in a row and will turn the light off on the 4th.

[Cobound]

Interesting, dunno. I'll have to pay attention next time it pops on, if it still becomes an issue.

[bbaCJ8]

Yeah that makes sense...as soon as the check engine light (MIL) comes on, OEM remote start won't work (at least on Chrysler products that I'm familiar with...2011+).
Same thing on newer GM, my wife's 09 Tahoe remote start wouldn't work when it was throwing a CEL for bad cat.

My manifold studs broke too, I took it in to get fixed, had to wait 4 months to get into their heavy repair section. In that time the other side let go as well. He said it would have been about $850 if I had to pay for it out of pocket!!
Seems to be a common trend for most of the aluminum head engines with cast iron manifolds....or at least the ones I've paid attention to. Got 2 in my driveway that need some studs replaced, but neither has caused any issues besides a tick at cold start so they haven't received any attention yet. Sounds like a project that can wait till spring.

[Cobound]

Yeah, I get the cold tick in the morning...otherwise it's not an issue.

Light just came on during startup this morning :banghead:

I'll run my scanner on it when I get home tonight, see if it's the same thing. Pisses me off, I just had a few recalls done yesterday and they should've cleared everything from the computer.

Anyway, likely the same thing...super intermittent. Doesn't seem to run bad, already get poor fuel mileage so I don't know if it affects that or not. Either way, I'm keeping it until I see the Gladiator in person...and likely gonna have to keep it anyway cuz of costs :lol:

[xj_man_646]

Same thing on newer GM, my wife's 09 Tahoe remote start wouldn't work when it was throwing a CEL for bad cat.


Seems to be a common trend for most of the aluminum head engines with cast iron manifolds....or at least the ones I've paid attention to. Got 2 in my driveway that need some studs replaced, but neither has caused any issues besides a tick at cold start so they haven't received any attention yet. Sounds like a project that can wait till spring.
For whatever reason, the 6.0L in the gmt800 2500/3500s seems to be the application with most common manifold issue. My '04 had the issue, but my '05 1500 with the all aluminum 5.3 does not even after almost 290k miles. I honestly have no idea why this trend exists...

I'll run my scanner on it when I get home tonight, see if it's the same thing. Pisses me off, I just had a few recalls done yesterday and they should've cleared everything from the computer.
They probably did. You probably set a pending fault on your way home, and it kicked the MIL on when you started it up this morning. A lot of diagnostics require fault detection over two drive cycles to turn on the light. Some diagnostics only require 1, such as catalyst damaging misfire (usually also a blinking light), or severe electrical issues could also trigger the MIL right away, but I'm guessing this one is a two trip MIL.

[Blue XJ]

I know it is purely coincidental but right after I had the studs replaced in mine, it threw a CEL for no fuel pressure, however it ran just fine. Dealer wanted $320 to replace the fuel pressure sensor. I bought the part for $85 from the dealer and spent a whopping 15 minutes replacing it. I really don't know how dealers still get customers in for service.

[bbaCJ8]

For whatever reason, the 6.0L in the gmt800 2500/3500s seems to be the application with most common manifold issue. My '04 had the issue, but my '05 1500 with the all aluminum 5.3 does not even after almost 290k miles. I honestly have no idea why this trend exists...

At a guess, it's an issue of differing materials with differing coefficients of thermal expansions. Aluminum expands and contracts at different rates than cast iron, which expands and contracts at different rates than high strength steel bolts/studs. Add in some galvanic corrosion and extreme heat cycles and you've got a lot of stress. Maybe even stress corrosion playing a role. Or maybe they just spec'd out the wrong kind of fastener. Something too strong may be too brittle to survive the heat cycles and varying CTEs over time. Something too soft that easily survives the varying CTEs may not have enough ultimate strength to survive.

[Blue XJ]

Now that's an engineering answer if I ever heard one! But I agree 100%. The manifold design plays a role in it too, it's really only common on the trucks, the cars dont see stud failure as often. I assume the truck manifolds might be thicker in the mounting area not allowing them to expand/contract as much as the car manifolds.

[Dennis]

Can't comment on the technical issues with the manifold, but I got the infamous ticking on my pentastar a few months ago. 50K miles but 5 years one month of ownership. :banghead: . My JKU is just out of the vin range for the recall, but I argued with Mopar and the covered 90% of the charges for all new valves and two camshafts. I'd call the dealer and see what they can do. Mopar Customer Care to get the ball rolling is 800-521-9922

[nblehm]

I know it is purely coincidental but right after I had the studs replaced in mine, it threw a CEL for no fuel pressure, however it ran just fine. Dealer wanted $320 to replace the fuel pressure sensor. I bought the part for $85 from the dealer and spent a whopping 15 minutes replacing it. I really don't know how dealers still get customers in for service.

:rolleyes: I bet the last steak at a steakhouse was the same price as the grocery store.

[bbaCJ8]

Now that's an engineering answer if I ever heard one! But I agree 100%. The manifold design plays a role in it too, it's really only common on the trucks, the cars dont see stud failure as often. I assume the truck manifolds might be thicker in the mounting area not allowing them to expand/contract as much as the car manifolds.
I doubt it's the mounting flange thickness as much as everything surrounding and attached to them, but maybe that's part of it too. The chassis mounts of the engine, the exhaust system, and the design of the exhaust system itself can all play a role. I imagine a unibody car has entirely different engine and exhaust mounts/isolators than a body-on-frame truck/SUV. The unibody car dampers are probably softer and more supple to mask more issues. This probably allows freer movement and puts less stresses back into the exhaust system and its mounts(the manifolds). The body-on-frame truck basically has an extra set of rubber isolators between the chassis and frame to ward off additional NVH issues from the occupants. 100% theory on that one, but makes sense in my head.

[Blue XJ]

:rolleyes: I bet the last steak at a steakhouse was the same price as the grocery store.


I see what your saying, but really, almost $250 in labor for something that took me 15 minutes?? Unclip the fuel line from the rail, unclip the sensor and then reconnect. I could see 1 hours labor at a minimum, but not $250.

[xj_man_646]

At a guess, it's an issue of differing materials with differing coefficients of thermal expansions. Aluminum expands and contracts at different rates than cast iron, which expands and contracts at different rates than high strength steel bolts/studs. Add in some galvanic corrosion and extreme heat cycles and you've got a lot of stress. Maybe even stress corrosion playing a role. Or maybe they just spec'd out the wrong kind of fastener. Something too strong may be too brittle to survive the heat cycles and varying CTEs over time. Something too soft that easily survives the varying CTEs may not have enough ultimate strength to survive.

Now that's an engineering answer if I ever heard one! But I agree 100%. The manifold design plays a role in it too, it's really only common on the trucks, the cars dont see stud failure as often. I assume the truck manifolds might be thicker in the mounting area not allowing them to expand/contract as much as the car manifolds.

I agree, but why the issue on the 6.0L and not the 5.3L? I haven't looked into the differences between the manifolds on the 1500 vs 2500 but it is still odd in my mind...especially for how common it is on a 6.0L :dunno:

[nblehm]

I see what your saying, but really, almost $250 in labor for something that took me 15 minutes?? Unclip the fuel line from the rail, unclip the sensor and then reconnect. I could see 1 hours labor at a minimum, but not $250.

Labor rates here (according to my shop owner, haven't checked) at dealers are around 170-190 an hour. :eek:
I agree, but why the issue on the 6.0L and not the 5.3L? I haven't looked into the differences between the manifolds on the 1500 vs 2500 but it is still odd in my mind...especially for how common it is on a 6.0L :dunno:

I see just as many broken 5.3 bolts. Most commonly the Driver side rear bolt. Followed by pass rear, then drivers front. Manifolds and I believe y pipes are all the same.

[xj_man_646]

I see just as many broken 5.3 bolts. Most commonly the Driver side rear bolt. Followed by pass rear, then drivers front. Manifolds and I believe y pipes are all the same.

Interesting. I've never seen a ticking 5.3L on the roads, but everyone I know with a 6.0L has or had the issue. I'll keep crossing my fingers for my 5.3L. Coming up on 290k miles now :yes:

[Blue XJ]

Labor rates here (according to my shop owner, haven't checked) at dealers are around 170-190 an hour. :eek:




That's insane, hard to believe people wouldn't just hit the independent shops to save some cash. But even at $190 an hour, they are still grossly over charging for the job.

I think the dealers by me charge $125 an hour.

[Cobound]

Stealerships.

Light is back on, drove it a few cycles and no change. Haven't driven it since Thursday, hopped in today and it's still on.

I'll be running my scanner again tonight to see if it's the same thing...likely.

[xj_man_646]

So, are you going to fix it? :lol:

[Cobound]

Yep.

[Blue XJ]

He has a scanner, he can just shut it off!

The only reason I fixed that FP issue on mine was because the remote start stopped working, and it's single digit highs here the last few days!

[xj_man_646]

Yep.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BogusBaggyGalapagosalbatross-size_restricted.gif

[Cobound]

He has a scanner, he can just shut it off!

The only reason I fixed that FP issue on mine was because the remote start stopped working, and it's single digit highs here the last few days!

Yeah, my remote start stopped working some time ago...this doesn't help it any. I just cleared room in the garage for me to get back in there tho, so that helps.

[xj_man_646]

If you want someone to drink beer and tell you what you're doing wrong, let me know when you decide to start working on it. :lol:

Seriously though, I'm down to lend a hand if you want.

[Cobound]

How about I just provide the beer and supper and you come suffer the cold garage space and do it like you're part of my Mopar team :lol:

Didn't get to it last night, caught a cold during my CO trip and just laid low. Crawling out of it today, see how I feel tonight. But any real work won't happen this week anyway, so...clear the code again and see what happens.

[xj_man_646]

:lol:

It would be easier for me to lend a hand over the weekend sometime vs during the week anyway.

[Cobound]

Weekend, check. Ditto for me, too. I'll let ya know, appreciate the offer.

[Cobound]

Filled up the tank yesterday afternoon, drove it a few places...light went off :lol:

Started it up this morning, still off :rock:

Must be something w/ low fuel, not really sure how that makes sense...but it seems to always reset when I go from under 1/8 or redline empty to full :dunno:

I always fill up at the same place, too.

[xj_man_646]

That is really peculiar. Should probably still plan on replacing it anyway :lol:

[Blue XJ]

Or just keep filling up when you get to 1/2 tank (or whatever the threshold is) so it doesn't turn on in the first place!

[Cobound]

Or just keep filling up when you get to 1/2 tank (or whatever the threshold is) so it doesn't turn on in the first place!

Yeah, I've considered that. I normally don't let my tank get down to under a quarter...but just been super busy and driving a lot to do otherwise.

I'll probably top it off at a half or just under next time, provided the light stays off for a bit.

-7 here today, tank is over 3/4...taking mind notes.

[Blue XJ]

It's gonna be dipping into the negatives here next week for us, I usually don't go below a 1/2 then. Not because I don't want it to get too low, but because it takes too long to put 33 gallons in when its below 0 out!

[Cobound]

:roflmao: :yes:

[Cobound]

Downloaded the Uconnect app after I purchased the Mopar remote service...wow, remote start is nice to have back :yes:

They sent me a 50% off offer, so I snagged it. $6.75/mo including taxes. :rock:

[Blue XJ]

50% off is nice, how’d you get that? I always get stuck paying full price. I’ll probably be cancelling mine again next month if the weather actually breaks.

[6DoF]

Downloaded the Uconnect app after I purchased the Mopar remote service...wow, remote start is nice to have back :yes:

They sent me a 50% off offer, so I snagged it. $6.75/mo including taxes. :rock:

you are paying $81 a year ... for a service feature ... that was first available in 1968, and included on most cars of the last 20 years?

:slap:

[Cobound]

50% off is nice, how’d you get that? I always get stuck paying full price. I’ll probably be cancelling mine again next month if the weather actually breaks.

Was an email offer directly from Mopar.

you are paying $81 a year ... for a service feature ... that was first available in 1968, and included on most cars of the last 20 years?

:slap:

It's a service feature they give for the first year if you buy new, sure, but after that, and now in the digital age, it's a pay for service feature.

I'm not 50-100 feet away from it, I'm a 10-15 minute walk away from it, and when I get there it's nice to be warm in 10* weather in a foot of snow :p

I likely won't keep it all year, just now in the harsh cold...not too worried about summer, it cools down quick.

Not only that, but it has find your vehicle service, lock doors...and maintenance stuff. Not fond of that dealer option, they get all the info on your vehicle, but it is what it is.

From what I know, there isn't a FREE version, cuz if there was I'd have it :f2:

Tell me how I went wrong, Matt :dunno:

[Blue XJ]

you are paying $81 a year ... for a service feature ... that was first available in 1968, and included on most cars of the last 20 years?

:slap:


You had a smart phone that could start your truck in 1968? Damn, I didnt know about it until I got my truck, and didnt even get a smart phone until the mid-2000's. I was WAY behind the times for 30+ years!!??!

[Cobound]

You had a smart phone that could start your truck in 1968? Damn, I didnt know about it until I got my truck, and didnt even get a smart phone until the mid-2000's. I was WAY behind the times for 30+ years!!??!

:roflmao:

[Blue XJ]

Downloaded the Uconnect app after I purchased the Mopar remote service...wow, remote start is nice to have back :yes:

They sent me a 50% off offer, so I snagged it. $6.75/mo including taxes. :rock:

Now that remote start season is over, I went to cancel my subscription and they offered me the same price as you mentioned. I'm locked in for the next year now as well for $75! :chug:

[Cobound]

Nice! Yeah, while it's technically over, it's nice in the summer heat to pop it on if I feel it's real bad out. Was cheap enough that it's better to keep it than ditch it ;)

[xj_man_646]

Does your check engine light still come on or does keeping it more than 1/2 full of fuel fix that issue?

[Cobound]

Been off for several weeks now :thumbsup:

[Blue XJ]

Nice! Yeah, while it's technically over, it's nice in the summer heat to pop it on if I feel it's real bad out. Was cheap enough that it's better to keep it than ditch it ;)

My old Ram (2011) could roll the windows down from the remote, that was nice to crack them a few inches on a hot day to help cool it off ahead of time. They removed that feature quickly because it was convenient I guess

[6DoF]

My old Ram (2011) could roll the windows down from the remote, that was nice to crack them a few inches on a hot day to help cool it off ahead of time. They removed that feature quickly because it was convenient I guess

seams like a German thing to do really, most bimmers and VWs i've messed with have had that as far back as '00. i LOVE that feature, why is it not standard on everything!?!?! walking up, put em down ... walking away, put em up

[Blue XJ]

Yeah, it's been around for awhile on those cars. My buddy just picked up a new Silverado and that's one of it's features that you can select.

The Ram didn't have the ability to roll them back up, I would roll them down when it was hot and humid and then end up having to start the truck to roll them back up when the weather turned to rain.