High pinion 44 what should I do.

[nblehm]

Picked up this 79 f250 hp44 a few days ago. Was a good deal, hard to find these anymore. Question is what should I do with it. I think it will pretty much bolt into my truck perch width wise. Swap over my chevy knuckles and e locker (need to confirm gearing) run it for awhile under the j10, would be nice because it would help my front driveshaft angle. I need to measure WMS width because I think it might be wider than a j20 axle which wouldnt be great.

Wild idea.
So at some point here in the future I'm building another crawler. Light weight, nimble, 37" tires hopefully <3000 pounds. Probably based on a cj2a.

Narrow this thing to 62-63", dana 60 outers. 35 spline spool, jana gear set. I figure, close to dana 60 strength and the ground clearance of a dana44. And it's different
Only thing I'd have to figure out beside custom shafts is i think the axle tubes are 2.75" and all dana 60 inner knuckles come at 3". I have a bunch of time in my hands to think about stuff :dunno: :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/xe1afQX.jpg

[freerider15]

Honestly, unless it were going under a general rec wheeler...not worth the effort.

Definitely wouldn't put the effort into it in any dedicated crawler.

I'd go RS housings and Toyota 3rd's long before that.

[Hoofmann]

I’m with Justin on this, but if you’re going to build light weight and you’re stuck on building a 44, it seems RCVs hold up just fine even with 40” tires. Vehicle weight will be the biggest factor in that 44 surviving.

That housing is probably the strongest housing you can get for a 44. Truss it still.

[Hoofmann]

Oh and going with fabbed housings and stuff is really expensive.

[freerider15]

Oh and going with fabbed housings and stuff is really expensive.

You might be surprised.

I could put together a fabbed housing with goodies for cheaper than I could my current D60.

If not going fabbed housing, just buy a super60 for cheap and be done.

[6DoF]

good score on the axle!!! my vote would be to either use it as-is, or find some other hated version to cut up. please don't cut up a leaf spring HPd44 (unless re-tubing it to pass-drop). so yeah, i like swapping the gears/locker and GM knuckles out onto this axle for the J20.

that said, i'm obviously all about making a crazy custom axle. i'm also digging the lightweight mid size crawler. there is a class-1 rig that i have wheeled with a few times and it's a riot. sub-3000lbs, 4cyl/auto YJ, d30/d35, 33's, rear LSD, front lunchbox. class-1 only gets one locker, so he has cutting brakes to simulate a rear locker if he get's hung. works amazing. and very streetable! he'd follow me anywhere i went. obviously good skids n sliders.

the d60 stuff is SO much heavier, i can't vote for that. specially after watching guys compete against me crawling on 35's with a d30. the only time i ever broke the d44 in 16+ years was when my mindset went to "make it or break it". got a buddy doing something similar right now and we are building a new front axle for him. went thru a similar decision process and ultimately we landed on a 944 with all stock parts. i am cutting the knuckles off a ****ty d44 and having them bored open to 3" to fit a stock 9" housing. it's nice to have friends with mills to who will do that stuff free. he's going to stick to 31spline to keep a stock 9" center, and do custom inner shafts with GM chromo outers and yukon super joints. gm knuckles/spindles/brakes, but a ford 5x5.5 hub.

[nblehm]

Honestly, unless it were going under a general rec wheeler...not worth the effort.

Definitely wouldn't put the effort into it in any dedicated crawler.

I'd go RS housings and Toyota 3rd's long before that.

More I think about it, it will probably end up under my truck. Spring perches are pretty close to bolt in. Just depending on what gears are in the hp44 I can swap everything over and not really have to buy anything. It will also help my crappy front driveshaft angle.

Im still awhile out on building anything (moving etc etc) but doesnt mean I can day dream a little bit. Of course the easiest thing to do would be to slap 60s under a crawler and go with what works. That is boring to me and been there done that kind of thing. But I also want it to be reliable and durable. It will have sticky 37s and v8 power that is for sure. Dont want it to always be a trailer queen so will have some dot tires too.

Dana 44.
Pros: Cheaper to start, more ground clearance, weight savings (slight lots of aftermarket stuff
Cons: Small steering u joints, Small ball joints. Small hubs
Dana 60
Pros: Not much worry about breaking it. Aftermarket support
Cons: heavy, ground clearance, hard to find cheap
9"
pros: strong, aftermarket support, better ground clearance, light
cons: could get pretty expensive, the pinion is really low. hp is $
Toyota axles
pros: light, good aftermarket, good clearance
cons: birfields, not great turning angle, birfields.

I have thought about a 8"/60 combo, not sure what diameter the shafts are but biggest carrier for a toyota axle is 32 spline. Probably the most clearance and lightest, have hp third members. Lots of pluses there. I am fairly confident I wouldnt have problems with a hp44 gear set in the front, but have broken a bunch of dana44 u joints, that is where the thinking of the hybrid axle came from. You can also get a bunch of steering angle out of dana60 shafts (remember light and nimble). You can get 35 spline spools for a dana 44. The more I read about the jana kit the less I like it, I guess worst case you can cryo treat gears :dunno: A fabricated axle would be cool, but can get expensive quick, I dont really like how low the pinion is on 9".

Part of all of this is I want to build axles, I want to chop something apart, narrow it make it something different. The 44/60 isnt for everyone for sure, I get that and I would probably be polishing a turd. Maybe thats the fun in it. I also kind of want to find a hp60 and turn it into a rear with the diff offset to make the front. Would be interesting figuring all that out.

Matt Im not really sure what hp44 I could start with and not cut up a good axle. The cast wedges axles I guess you could re tube.

[Hoofmann]

You might be surprised.

I could put together a fabbed housing with goodies for cheaper than I could my current D60.

If not going fabbed housing, just buy a super60 for cheap and be done.
I'm looking on the Ruff Stuff website and their bare housing starts at $785. You could pick up a complete D44 front end for half that. Hell, $800 and you could have a late model Super Duty front Dana 60.

You might start pointing out that you'll end up with after market gears, axles, lockers, etc. but you'll be doing the same with an after market housing, too. I don't disagree that you'll end up with something stronger and lighter with the aftermarket option, but for the money, a junkyard axle seems to be where it's at, especially for a front end, which is twice as expensive to build than a rear.

What did you pay for that HP44, Nate?

[nblehm]

what did you pay for that hp44, nate?

350.

[nblehm]

Reading more about it. Toyota axles turn 30 degrees stock max of 35 degrees if you want to smash the felts. That is the major down side to toy axles. Everything else would be good

[6DoF]

i'm real interested to get some chromo shafts able to take 45deg and open up the d60 ... i feel like that would be crazy.

[Sir Sam]

Reading more about it. Toyota axles turn 30 degrees stock max of 35 degrees if you want to smash the felts. That is the major down side to toy axles. Everything else would be good

I’m also sick of swivel ball axles now. I want open knuckle from here on out.

[nblehm]

Im just going to put this thing in my truck. Need to verify gears and width first though. The tires fit really nice into the fenders now, wouldnt want to mess that up.

[freerider15]

I'm looking on the Ruff Stuff website and their bare housing starts at $785. You could pick up a complete D44 front end for half that. Hell, $800 and you could have a late model Super Duty front Dana 60.

You might start pointing out that you'll end up with after market gears, axles, lockers, etc. but you'll be doing the same with an after market housing, too. I don't disagree that you'll end up with something stronger and lighter with the aftermarket option, but for the money, a junkyard axle seems to be where it's at, especially for a front end, which is twice as expensive to build than a rear.

What did you pay for that HP44, Nate?

You're overthinking it :D

Believe it or not, some of the top rigs out there are running stock toyota drop in 3rds and more, just in better housings :D

Doing it all over again, I'm not sure I'd build the typical D60/14b combo. For what I've got into my front D60, I could likely have a portal'd front axle with the goodies.

[nblehm]

You're overthinking it :D

Believe it or not, some of the top rigs out there are running stock toyota drop in 3rds and more, just in better housings :D

Doing it all over again, I'm not sure I'd build the typical D60/14b combo. For what I've got into my front D60, I could likely have a portal'd front axle with the goodies.

:squint: how do you have so much money in a front 60. A portal axle will have all the same parts plus all the portal stuff.

[nblehm]

Well now I have this thing too. :dunno:

https://i.imgur.com/8vIMFmA.jpg

[Cobound]

Was that sitting at the bottom of an ocean :eek:

Or sunk in the mud after the vehicle stopped moving :p

[Hoofmann]

Yeeee!!!

[nblehm]

Was that sitting at the bottom of an ocean :eek:

Or sunk in the mud after the vehicle stopped moving :p

Just outside for 2 years in the dirt :lol:

600 bucks for a high pinion kingpin 60. Not sure what i will use it for. Might sell it. :dunno:

[xj_man_646]

600 bucks for a high pinion kingpin 60. Not sure what i will use it for. Might sell it. :dunno:

I would flip it. Super duty axles are cheaper and the 05+ axles are better than the KP60 in nearly every way. OEM 1550 shafts are neat.

[nblehm]

I would flip it. Super duty axles are cheaper and the 05+ axles are better than the KP60 in nearly every way. OEM 1550 shafts are neat.

Except the goofy lug pattern. The giant cast radius arm bracket and no where to put mounts on the drivers side. The unit bearings are super expensive. The hi steer arm thing.


From talking to the guy I thought this might be the 78-79 60 because that basically bolts into my j10. Its the later one with the diff more offset. Still for 600 I dont think I did too bad (unless i am super out of touch with the dana 60 market :lol: )

[xj_man_646]

The unit bearings can easily be re-drilled with a template which indexes off the stock studs (just one solution). I have never seen a failure of a unit bearing between the half a dozen or so people I know running that series of axle. The 05+ knuckles can also be machined for high steer IIRC. They can also be had for as little as $250.

[nblehm]

Oh I know there are solutions.

Now I am going to have to look at the 60 market. I didnt know superduty axles were so cheap.

[6DoF]

i've yet to see ANY modern axle i'd rather have. harder to screw with cuz they need special tools or technics to work on em, cost more in the long run if modding, plus i always worry about chinesium castings. if i needed more than a good ol king-pin i'd build something total custom. to anyone who doesn't like packing bearings, go take up knitting, haha.

$600 seams ok if the kings and bearings are salvageable, but on the high end for a real junkyard axle for me. you can always part it down for that though! a quick wire wheel n paint job gets things sold quick, hehe.

[xj_man_646]

That's the thing...KP60 is not a modern axle by any measure anymore. What special tools do you need? :confused:. Keep a junk yard set of axle shafts bolted to the UBH as spares and call it good. I'd rather deal with a sealed wheel bearing in a mud hole than tapered roller bearings as well. The fact that new axles undergo standardized testing for GVWR and such is also something to consider...castings on an 05+ d60 will be stronger than a 30 year old KP axle for sure. They're cheaper, stronger, turn sharper, and have OEM 1550 shafts available for a few hundred dollars. Show me the down side :lol:. OEM Ford KP D60 knuckles are a known weak point anyway, so you need to almost always plan an upgrade there.

Nate, it is largely dependent on where you live. You-pull it yards in SE MI will sell 05+ D60s for a few hundred dollars all day long. One of my friends got one for $50 on a sale day.

Artec also has a ton of solutions available for the Superduty axles, as well as other companies out there. https://www.artecindustries.com/Ford-Superduty

[nblehm]

Maybe its just because it is what I am used to but I would still rather use a kp60 :lol: You do make solid points for the superduty axle. Anything on a new diesel is beef these days.

Facebook Market place around me cheapest 60 is a ball joint ford 60 from the 90s at 800, superduty 60 for 900 and a dodge 60 for 900. Should do alright on it worst case I went for a nice mountain drive on my way home from picking the 60 up.

[xj_man_646]

I believe you could flip it for a SD 60 and be ahead. 99-04 were leaf sprung and are decent, 05+ were coils and is where the real beef starts. There are 5 options for an 05+ axle within 20 miles of me, for less than $400 on car-part :)

[nblehm]

I dont even know what I need a 60 for :lol:

Does my truck need one? Not really I did break the longside shafts and ujoints but i feel like that wont be the norm. I dont habe anything else for a crawler right now, so dont really need axles sitting around. Maybe a willys at some point but not for a few years. I will have to look more into the super duty stuff.

[6DoF]

worst case blast it clean, paint it nice, and make sure all the grease it clean ... you'll never loose money.

i can say i like the added weight down low in the YJ.

[nblehm]

I am thinking hard about 3 linking the front of the j10 with coilovers. Really want to make it more comfortable for trail wheeling. Only so many options with the spring over front and nearly flat springs as is. That said I dont really love rock crawling the j10. Hard to see out of because the hood is huge and square. That and I dont really want to cave any of the body panels in.

[xj_man_646]

I've considered just starting to stash them and sell them to the lazy Jeep crowd. People out west are paying 1000 for them or more in some cases. If you took the time to add Jeep TJ/JK/JL axle mounts you could flip them for a killing.

[nblehm]

The land of no rust isnt good for used parts prices. Hell a 2004 tahoe probably still sells for 4-6k here. Makes ls motors still pretty expensive. No buying a rusted out truck for 500 bucks.

[Hoofmann]

A kingpin 60 is still the gold standard front end, in my opinion. The 2005+ super duty front ends are nice too and with weld on steering arms for high steer and OE 35 spline stubs, they have become a nice option. I don’t regret building my kingpin 60 but if I were to build another front end, I’d be looking for one of those 2005+ fronts for the simple fact that the U-joints are bigger and if you end up breaking the u-joints, you can fit a larger CV shaft than what you can fit in a kingpin.

Oh and PS - build a crawler around that KP60 so we can go crawling! :brows:

[nblehm]

Oh and PS - build a crawler around that KP60 so we can go crawling! :brows:

Its coming man. Might be a few years out but I have a goal set to get back into a crawler. J10 is fun but not the same. Your jeep wheelable?

[xj_man_646]

I see no reason to run a 2005+ SD.

You're old and boring.

Why would you not want more strength for a cheaper price? :confused:

[xj_man_646]

Stock for stock there is no question. Who doesn't upgrade to 35 spline outers at least on a KP 60?

The 05+ F250/350 axle will accept OEM 1550 shafts available for the F550 I believe. The large spread on the ball joints increases the strength, and they do not have the weak knuckles that the old Ford axles have. I believe they also have larger and thicker axle tubes.

The real fun begins once you start spending money. RCV makes a 'big bell' shaft that eliminates the lock out / drive flange component and engages the entire hub of the UBH...can't recall if this requires aftermarket knuckles or not.

[Hoofmann]

Its coming man. Might be a few years out but I have a goal set to get back into a crawler. J10 is fun but not the same. Your jeep wheelable?

It’s been back and forth between ready and not all summer. I’m tearing out the 14 bolt spool this weekend and finally getting around to installing the ARB I bought for it a few months back. :D

[nblehm]

Stock for stock there is no question. Who doesn't upgrade to 35 spline outers at least on a KP 60?

The 05+ F250/350 axle will accept OEM 1550 shafts available for the F550 I believe. The large spread on the ball joints increases the strength, and they do not have the weak knuckles that the old Ford axles have. I believe they also have larger and thicker axle tubes.

The real fun begins once you start spending money. RCV makes a 'big bell' shaft that eliminates the lock out / drive flange component and engages the entire hub of the UBH...can't recall if this requires aftermarket knuckles or not.

I just looked up those big bell rcvs. Crazy what they have out there now. Far cry from when 35 spline chromoly shafts were the toughest thing out there.

I dont really buy into the trend of everything having to have 47 spline shaft dana 80s. For some people absolutely, but its a select few. All these jks rolling round on dana 80s and 40s. Some say you cant over build I guess, but I think you can definitely over spend. This even extends to local trail report facebook pages. Trails people have been running for years in stock vehicles, probably 70% of people on those pages will claim you need full armor and probably 35 inch ties. Scraping a skid plate means you need more lift and bigger tires. Rant over.

[nblehm]

It’s been back and forth between ready and not all summer. I’m tearing out the 14 bolt spool this weekend and finally getting around to installing the ARB I bought for it a few months back. :D

Nice. I am down to do easier stuff like spring creek or chinamans or something

[Hoofmann]

I’d like to get out soon and do a little shake down next weekend or something.

[nblehm]

I’d like to get out soon and do a little shake down next weekend or something.

Let me know man.

[xj_man_646]

I just looked up those big bell rcvs. Crazy what they have out there now. Far cry from when 35 spline chromoly shafts were the toughest thing out there.

I dont really buy into the trend of everything having to have 47 spline shaft dana 80s. For some people absolutely, but its a select few. All these jks rolling round on dana 80s and 40s. Some say you cant over build I guess, but I think you can definitely over spend. This even extends to local trail report facebook pages. Trails people have been running for years in stock vehicles, probably 70% of people on those pages will claim you need full armor and probably 35 inch ties. Scraping a skid plate means you need more lift and bigger tires. Rant over.

I know...aren't they insane? I tend to agree with you regarding over building and such. That being said a JK with the D60 / D80 combo that Cobound has is pretty sweet. But I also enjoy thinking about the quote from one of the guys who used to be on here...Richard I think was his name...the guy with the internal defibrillator and pace maker but continued to weld and fab. I met him at Rausch once. "You're not done upgrading until the crankshaft is your weak link" :lol:.

[nblehm]

There is something to say about just being able to go out and beat the **** out of something and know its not going to break.

Saw a superduty 60 for 575 this morning local to me.

[6DoF]

a lot also comes down to what is your goal for the rig ... if reliability is the goal, the "don't break this cuz you have to drive it home" crowd, then over building is a way of life. if you can trailer it home there's a lot to be said for smaller, lighter parts with more clearance! took me over 15 years to get tired of the occasional 1/2ton breakage. and to be honest, most of that could have been avoided with new tires that required less "send"

also depends on rig weight way more than i think ppl give credit for. a stripped down zuki vs an over-landing JKU is a MASIVE difference if both want to run 37s. you are literally talking upwards of 3x weight. forget bouncing up stuff and driving like a dick, just heaving the JKU up a small step very controlled is already more stress than full zuki send.

[Sir Sam]

Man I way overbuilt mine with the HP D30 and 8.25 rear, but it’s nice to know it’s reliable for trails like black bear, poison spider, and holy cross.

[6DoF]

Man I way overbuilt mine with the HP D30 and 8.25 rear, but it’s nice to know it’s reliable for trails like black bear, poison spider, and holy cross.

after now building a few 9", i'm 100% sold on em for the rear. from a factory axle that's cheap for the strength with lots of options, to the full float that both my TJ and YJ run. that's my choice for every build mild to wild.

for the front there are tons of options all over the map depending on build and use.