All Electric Jeep Recon

[Dennis]

Who would consider it?
https://jalopnik.com/jeep-recon-wagoneer-s-all-electric-suvs-1849508083
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,g_center,pg_1,q_60,w_965/4cb039b66c4218436f522ddb13e2e9b1.jpg
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,g_center,pg_1,q_60,w_965/43deedc39af2845eb093bcabe146c1ab.jpg
Seems to be aimed at the Bronco buyer. Sort of like the 1972-1973 Jeep Commando.

[xj_man_646]

I like how it looks, but I am not yet sold on 100% EV for my personal consideration. I like the idea of PHEV more as of today.

[6DoF]

hhhaaaaarrrddd pass

even my wife is jumping ship ... she's trying to buy a 2005 LJ now n sell her 2018 Hemi Grand

[Dennis]

They need to put the mirrors on the body a'la new Bronco, CJs, and the 1987 YJ.
I will have to see its true highway range. Can it get me to the Outer Banks on a Saturday morning mid-summer when I-95 and I-64 are accordions of traffic hell?

[xj_man_646]

hhhaaaaarrrddd pass

even my wife is jumping ship ... she's trying to buy a 2005 LJ now n sell her 2018 Hemi Grand

Hard pass for what reason(s)?

Why is she selling the 2018?

[nblehm]

My buddy just got his Rivian delivered we are going to go wheeling. Me in the Willy’s :lol:


If I bought a new car it would be electric. That said I am WAAAAY to cheap to buy a new car.

[nblehm]

As for the jeep. Looks to much like a hummer h3. Give me a plug in JL

[Dennis]

As for the jeep. Looks to much like a hummer h3. Give me a plug in JL

I am considering one. But considering a Bronco as well.

[6DoF]

Hard pass for what reason(s)?

Why is she selling the 2018?

we've had more than enough EV debates, for all the reasons. and off road even more so.

the GC however ... she needs something on the compact side to park in the city, the grand is kind of the limit. has to be AWD for her foul weather ride. she's been converted and it has to be entertaining along with fast n loud now too! then weigh that against costs. the hemi GC kinda stands alone.

maintenance issues on this one, along with dealer BS, has just turned her off to it. for 1/3 the cost she could drive an LJ that's more entertaining just not as fast, and not depreciating. i've said that enough times about Hank i think she's accidentally buying into it now! everything needs maintenance, might as well have something easier to work on, cheaper, more available parts, etc etc. she now hates dealers as much as me finally.

plus she wants a 2024 hybrid Vette for the AWD. we could ditch all debt but the house by selling the GC for a TJ and she could start saving.

[xj_man_646]

So you have a hard pass based on principal of the EV, not this specific one, necessarily.

I would be very surprised if you didn't start seeing electric rock crawlers starting to make their way into competitions very soon; there are clear advantages to short stint run times but clear disadvantages for trail riding, etc.

I think the PHEV Wrangler would be sweet; sounds like Will got to wheel with one recently and said it was pretty cool.

The AWD Hybrid Vette should be sweet. I can't have a fast car anymore...I'm still too irresponsible :lol:. That said...I do want to turbo my red truck :evil:

[xj_man_646]

Personally, I don't want to be messing around with a high voltage system anyways.

What would you feasibly see yourself fixing related to the EV system? I sure wouldn't be one signing up to tear into a battery pack or deep into the inner working of the motors. But that is me, and historically speaking, I do not get along well with electrons.

I would like to have an EV for my local commuter vehicle someday. I don't think the ICE powered trucks are going anywhere anytime soon (unless you're looking to buy new in CA) so I should be good there for awhile.

[Dennis]

I don't know any do it yourselfer who rewound their alternator/generator on their vehicles if that was a needed repair. Some things have always been sent out or replaced. That is what core charges are for. Electric vehicles won't be too far different in that concept. Batteries will continue to improve and so will ideas for in the field recharging technology.
For now I don't know if I would buy an all electric off-roader. But the Wrangler 4xE is getting my attention and wish there was a comparable Bronco right now.

[Dennis]

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305959750_10158324618260633_7320414950069923818_n. jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=r7Zu-tqdjxsAX_8E652&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9Ac9drwfJcR19-x3UOS4P4QCvGe4Cg-8e0eKOVt1i7xw&oe=63252C8E

[xj_man_646]

FWIW, they will be requiring access to repair information for independent repair shops (and likely the consumers who want to pay for that level of info, think alldata - I'm literally sitting in a conference on this subject right now).

I'm not sure what that would mean in terms of programming any particular module (not something people generally have access to now, either) but I don't think it will be as bad as you're describing.

[xj_man_646]

Right now you can buy a subscription to just about any of the major manufacturers and be able to flash components. It's because it's the law.


This is not going to change, based on the discussions on upcoming regulations I am sitting in on this week.

[Hoofmann]

This is a no from me.

Same reasons as Mr. Blehm except if I were to purchase a new car, it would NOT be electric.

Yeah, it’s cool that a Tesla Plaid is basically the fastest car you can buy, but I still have a lot of love for internal combustion engines. I like V8s. I like turbos. I love the visceral experience of driving a big, loud performance machine.

I’m also not sold that electric cars are the answer to the emissions reductions that the gov is going to impose on us. Strip mining Cobalt and all these other materials needed for EVs can’t be nearly as environmentally friendly as drilling for oil. It’s perfect for the NIMBY crowd, however.

It doesn’t matter, either way. I’m typically a late adopter anyway. The biggest thing for new cars, for me, is all these excessive bells and whistles that come on cars now.

Imagine buying a 2022 Jeep in 10 years, with 10 cameras, lane assist, adaptive cruise, etc etc etc. Now it’s 2032 and half of that crap works and you’re not allowed to touch it CuZ rIgHt tO RePaIr!!!!

No. Just no.

[xj_man_646]

You're correct that cars are becoming less and less of the overall environmental 'issue', but that is because of how clean they are already. It drives me nuts that CARB is still chasing air quality improvements from light duty vehicles when the new ones are already likely cleaning the air in the LA basin. IMO, they have done pretty much all they can reasonably do, but they are a .gov operation so they will continue to try to justify their existence until nothing is using fossil fuels anymore :lol:.

FWIW...Right to Repair technically enables you to have access to the OEM level information and tools. Likely won't be cheap though.

I've got some experience driving vehicles from nearly 10 years ago that has adaptive cruise and some other fancy stuff. I haven't experienced any drivers aids that were broken or malfunctioning, even on one such FCA product :lol:. To me, it seems that newer vehicles have an easier time lasting longer than older ones. I.e.: When I bought my 8 year old 2005 GMC, it had significantly more wrong with it than my 9 year old 2013 Ford (both of which had over 200k miles at the time of purchase).

[Cobound]

Yeah, I'm no early adopter either, it'll take a while for me to get on board w/ an EV, but I don't hate them. Hate mandates, but not the progression of them.

I laugh when I hear "they sure don't make them like they used to"...on anything, much less vehicles, cuz you're right, they make them better...and they tend to last a lot longer :p

Hell, safety alone...

[MBood82]

I laugh when I hear "they sure don't make them like they used to"...on anything, much less vehicles, cuz you're right, they make them better...and they tend to last a lot longer :p

That quote is so misapplied now. Some stuff is definitely built much better, with longer life spans and more features.

But some stuff is being built to a price point that used to be built to last, with the ability to service anything essentially long gone. Are there any tv or vacuum repair stores anymore? I don't know of any by my area. Just go buy a new one when it breaks!

To me, the question will be will we find the EVs in the long term harder to service, so they may last longer in their service life before needing repair, only to then become unusable at the first failure whereas a gas engine'd vehicle could have been repaired?

[6DoF]

"they don't make em like they used to" ... for me has nothing to do with lifespan and everything to do with simplicity and engineering based on functionality and repair, not cheap automated manufacturing.

i'm with Wrath on all that. i mean, i get pissed when i need a $100 "special tool" for a repair, now can you imagine having to buy that tool every time you had to fix it AGAIN ... PLUS with Tesla, the entire right to repair issue is voided!! they claim liability for the charging network. if you don't get repairs thru them for CRAZY money, you get locked out of the network and your car gets locked to low-current. it becomes useless for anything other then the grocery store. sure you can fix your toy yourself, but then you can't play with our toys. they have the ability to literally lock you out of all their gas stations, and only let you fill the car with an 1/8" straw from anyone else's. they will only charge at a stupid slow rate even in your own home with your own charger! "because their liability" you don't think everyone will jump on that ship with em?

the entire lease agreement process is based on the cars value after, that'll all collapse soon when ppl realize there is little to no value after too long. everyone will literally just rent cars from the OEM, no option to purchase, you don't own it so none of this matters. little guy gets fawked.

[xj_man_646]

Keep in mind, that in the case of the automobile, government regulations (between noise, emissions, safety) have drastically increased the required complexity, and with added complexity comes added costs, which are kept as low as possible. In order to produce the cheapest vehicle for the consumer, designs are largely there to aid more efficient manufacturing. I understand what you're saying but you can't have the benefits of new technology and creature comforts with the simplicity of yesteryear.

Keep Tesla out of the discussion; they aren't the norm. I don't think it will be long before the other OEMs surpass Tesla's EV reputation and market share. I have heard they've improved, but I was absolutely appalled at the quality of their 100k SUV.

[6DoF]

Keep in mind, that in the case of the automobile, government regulations (between noise, emissions, safety) have drastically increased the required complexity, and with added complexity comes added costs, which are kept as low as possible. In order to produce the cheapest vehicle for the consumer, designs are largely there to aid more efficient manufacturing. I understand what you're saying but you can't have the benefits of new technology and creature comforts with the simplicity of yesteryear.

Keep Tesla out of the discussion; they aren't the norm. I don't think it will be long before the other OEMs surpass Tesla's EV reputation and market share. I have heard they've improved, but I was absolutely appalled at the quality of their 100k SUV.

reason 8751 the .gov needs to gtfo!

and i don't disagree that tesla will get pushed out ... but they are setting a pretty high bar for BS that will be emulated

[xj_man_646]

Let's not forget customer demands :lol:. For whatever reason people seem to think a diesel truck needs to be whisper quiet.

I definitely can see subscription based services coming already...BMW with their heated seats and all that BS....sucks for sure.

[Dennis]

"they don't make em like they used to" ... for me has nothing to do with lifespan and everything to do with simplicity and engineering based on functionality and repair, not cheap automated manufacturing.

i'm with Wrath on all that. i mean, i get pissed when i need a $100 "special tool" for a repair, now can you imagine having to buy that tool every time you had to fix it AGAIN ... PLUS with Tesla, the entire right to repair issue is voided!! they claim liability for the charging network. if you don't get repairs thru them for CRAZY money, you get locked out of the network and your car gets locked to low-current. it becomes useless for anything other then the grocery store. sure you can fix your toy yourself, but then you can't play with our toys. they have the ability to literally lock you out of all their gas stations, and only let you fill the car with an 1/8" straw from anyone else's. they will only charge at a stupid slow rate even in your own home with your own charger! "because their liability" you don't think everyone will jump on that ship with em?

the entire lease agreement process is based on the cars value after, that'll all collapse soon when ppl realize there is little to no value after too long. everyone will literally just rent cars from the OEM, no option to purchase, you don't own it so none of this matters. little guy gets fawked.I got back $15k from the 2018 Q7 Lease when I turned it in. :brows:
I expect we will be even in 2025 when we turn this one in.
Selling cars isn't going anywhere.

[Dennis]

reason 8751 the .gov needs to gtfo!

and i don't disagree that tesla will get pushed out ... but they are setting a pretty high bar for BS that will be emulatedGovernment mandates aren't what are making manufactures come up with tool specific repairs and subscription based heated seats.
Comparing a Honda CRV with an Audi Q3, shows the baseline sound requirements are negligible when another automaker can make a similar sized and equipped vehicle that much quitter for not that much more. The top of the line CRV is the same price as Q3, and feels thousands less.

[xj_man_646]

No, but the government is basically the only reason that dealership networks exist at this point.

[6DoF]

Government mandates aren't what are making manufactures come up with tool specific repairs and subscription based heated seats.
Comparing a Honda CRV with an Audi Q3, shows the baseline sound requirements are negligible when another automaker can make a similar sized and equipped vehicle that much quitter for not that much more. The top of the line CRV is the same price as Q3, and feels thousands less.

i'll agree with that for sure, the "consumer grade" vs "pro grade" vehicles are a wide gap. much wider than the costs.

if the market exists, we should be able to buy bare bones simple stuff with no traction control, no review camera's and screens, no CAN bus. stuff built to be serviced easily, quickly and cheap. the .gov mandates make that impossible. that market might also not exist, but it shouldn't be illegal.

[Dennis]

i'll agree with that for sure, the "consumer grade" vs "pro grade" vehicles are a wide gap. much wider than the costs.

if the market exists, we should be able to buy bare bones simple stuff with no traction control, no review camera's and screens, no CAN bus. stuff built to be serviced easily, quickly and cheap. the .gov mandates make that impossible. that market might also not exist, but it shouldn't be illegal.You aren't getting rid of back up cameras and basic traction control. Too many kids have died in wrecks where those features would have easily avoided the deaths. The safety lobby is strong, still not as strong as the manufacturers, but strong enough to keep some things like that in place.

Isn't the CAN bus stuff there to make it easier/cheaper for the manufacturers, plus give them a semi-monopoly on repairs and upgrades? :dunno: Is there not a way to separate emissions from traction control from my HVAC from my radio from my windows from my lights from my door locks from my heated seats?

[Dennis]

No, but the government is basically the only reason that dealership networks exist at this point.Yeah the lobbyists at https://www.nada.org/ are too good and well funded at the state and federal level. But some changes have been made.