2024 Wrangler

[Dennis]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-jeep-wrangler-first-look-review
Some good mechanical upgrades, but the grill in the grill breaks tradition a bit too much. Last time they made such mid-model changes to the open top Jeep would be 1980 when they switched hard top door handles on the CJ-7 from latch handles to paddle latches. Previously big change would be the CJ-5 wheel base stretch in 1972. Neither changed much traditional style.

[xj_man_646]

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to with the grill in grill comment. :dunno:.

Are you referring to the pattern they have between the vertical slots?

https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/04/2024-Jeep-Wrangler-392-17.jpg?fit=around%7C1000:625

If so, I am not a big fan of that either.

[Dennis]

Yup. Maybe you, Sean, or one of our other vehicle engineers can weigh in here if the is additional air flow required for new regulations or accessories. Or is it purely from the design studio?

[xj_man_646]

That looks to me like its an aesthetic change, but it may have a small impact on fuel efficiency. When I was working at FCA facilities around the time that Hellcat launched, I overheard an engineer say they invest roughly $1mil for every 0.1 MPG gain in fuel economy, so every little bit can help.

[6DoF]

i think jeep started this whole "grill controversy" themselves to try and stir up clicks ... the core aesthetic is still there, game on.

[Cobound]

Round headlights and 7 slots...still present, I've moved on.

[xj_man_646]

Everyone knows square headlights are for the most real of Jeeps anyway

[nblehm]

Jeep died in 1987. I have moved on :lol:

[6DoF]

:lol:

[bbaCJ8]

New grill looks a lot better in person, especially with an AEV bumper in front of it. It's still very clearly a Jeep, and either version of JL grill is drastically better than JK was. We've got a bunch of 2023 20th Anniversary Rubicons passing through our shop every week, which is the same grill that will start in 2024.

Airflow is definitely a factor, it's always been a limitation on these, and with the higher towing capacity it was even more of a factor. That doesn't mean aesthetics aren't a factor too, it always is. Studio played a major role I'm sure since it was due for a mid-cycle refresh. Biggest problem with them is the price tag.

[Jeepin Jason]

Original JL/JT grille looks way better IMHO.

[Dennis]

Original JL/JT grille looks way better IMHO.
Yeah. New one looks like a Renegades, and I do not mean a cool old CJ-5 or CJ-7.
https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/04/2024-Jeep-Wrangler-3.jpg?fit=around%7C770:481.25

[Hoofmann]

Everyone is so worried about the grille when 60-70% of the people who buy new Jeeps are just going to ditch it for the cheap Chinese angry grille.

[Dennis]

Everyone is so worried about the grille when 60-70% of the people who buy new Jeeps are just going to ditch it for the cheap Chinese angry grille.

Not nearly that many folks do around here. But those that do still make me sad.

[Cobound]

I'm ok with it, and that's all that matters to me :roflmao:

[6DoF]

i changed my mind ... the 2024 grill is stupid

[Dennis]

i changed my mind ... the 2024 grill is stupid:thumbsup:

[Cobound]

Not enough changed for me to want a newer model, that’s a bigger deal than a grill alone. I’ll keep what I have regardless.

OlllllllO

[Dennis]

Too expensive
Too bad of a nose job
Too far removed from it origins

https://jalopnik.com/some-of-jeeps-best-customers-simply-cant-afford-the-bra-1850937694

[Jeepin Jason]

I priced out a Rubicon recently, and it was just over $70K. Now, that was basically fully loaded, with the 35" tire pkg, steel bumpers, winch, hard top, color matched flares/top, upgraded stereo, etc. Which I figure was still cheaper overall than starting with a regular Rubicon and then adding a lift, tires, bumpers, winch, etc after market. But still... that's literally Lexus GX460 money. And far more than any 4Runner. But at the same time, the Wrangler has 35" tires, bumpers, winch, etc. so it's basically fully modded up and ready to go wherever you're willing to take it. The base model Rubicon now starts are more than what my well-equipped 2016 HardRock stickered at... And the Rubicon X MSRP is 2x what I paid for my 2009 Rubicon.

[6DoF]

locally there are wranglers 6-9k below MSRP on the lots ... Rams are 10k off msrp here

[nblehm]

locally there are wranglers 6-9k below MSRP on the lots ... Rams are 10k off msrp here

I briefly talked to Cobound about new gladiators because there are max tow gladiators for under 40k on the lots here. Then I came to my senses. :lol:

[Dennis]

I priced out a Rubicon recently, and it was just over $70K. Now, that was basically fully loaded, with the 35" tire pkg, steel bumpers, winch, hard top, color matched flares/top, upgraded stereo, etc. Which I figure was still cheaper overall than starting with a regular Rubicon and then adding a lift, tires, bumpers, winch, etc after market. But still... that's literally Lexus GX460 money. And far more than any 4Runner. But at the same time, the Wrangler has 35" tires, bumpers, winch, etc. so it's basically fully modded up and ready to go wherever you're willing to take it. The base model Rubicon now starts are more than what my well-equipped 2016 HardRock stickered at... And the Rubicon X MSRP is 2x what I paid for my 2009 Rubicon.
$70k is a decently equipped Audi Q7, it is a very well equipped Porsche Macan with the base powertrain.

A Wrangler Rubicon is more fun and can get a bit deeper into the woods during the apocalypse, but not nearly as comfortable for the day to day, and I have to assume far cheaper to build. Bean counters at Stellantis are on the cusp of pushing prices too far and taking the brand over a financial cliff.

Only Wrangler acquisition deal that looks reasonably affordable to most is the 4xe lease that rolls the tax credit in, but you have nothing to show except some memories when the lease is up.

The days of Wranglers being average priced cars for the everyman are over.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vwIAAOSwmrNiWyk8/s-l1200.webp

[6DoF]

it blows for us, but they couldn't make em fast enough ... so i don't blame them.

[nblehm]

Comparing a rubicon to a base YJ price isn’t fair.

Not that I am arguing a 70k jeep isn’t waaaaay too much

[6DoF]

that's early run too with the non-family cage ... that thing could still be carbureted

[Dennis]

that's early run too with the non-family cage ... that thing could still be carbureted
There was no YJ Rubicon equivalent. The base listed there is a fuel injected 2.5L I-4

But still, you can

[Dennis]

Comparing a rubicon to a base YJ price isn’t fair.

Not that I am arguing a 70k jeep isn’t waaaaay too much

that's early run too with the non-family cage ... that thing could still be carbureted

There was no YJ Rubicon equivalent. The base listed there is a fuel injected 2.5L I-4

But still, you can not get a two door JL for under $32k. Right at the average 2023 new car price. That average car priced base option less JL is much better equipped than the 1988 base YJ. But still the 2023 more than half the average US salary while the 1988 was less than half.

[xj_man_646]

Adjusting for inflation alone, $8,995 in 1989 is about $28k today. Not tooooo far off when you factor in the extra development costs, along with the costs of all the electronic gizmos and gadgets that vehicles are required to have now (along with the additional creature comforts)...doesn't seem terribly far off the $32k Dennis mentions.

[Dennis]

Compared to average income, still too much.

I have a feeling that vehicle price increases are going to level back off as interest rates for them are the highest in 30 years and triple what they were 10 years ago.

Zero down, zero percent is gone for a long long time.

[Cobound]

I priced out a Rubicon recently, and it was just over $70K. Now, that was basically fully loaded, with the 35" tire pkg, steel bumpers, winch, hard top, color matched flares/top, upgraded stereo, etc. Which I figure was still cheaper overall than starting with a regular Rubicon and then adding a lift, tires, bumpers, winch, etc after market. But still... that's literally Lexus GX460 money. And far more than any 4Runner. But at the same time, the Wrangler has 35" tires, bumpers, winch, etc. so it's basically fully modded up and ready to go wherever you're willing to take it. The base model Rubicon now starts are more than what my well-equipped 2016 HardRock stickered at... And the Rubicon X MSRP is 2x what I paid for my 2009 Rubicon.

Yep, while prices are absurd, if you're looking for a min 35" tire w/ mods and not having to do them yourself, saving labor, this is a buy to make.

Still tough to stomach tho.

locally there are wranglers 6-9k below MSRP on the lots ... Rams are 10k off msrp here

Yep, if you're a smart shopper and been looking for a long time, know what you're looking for and ready to pull the trigger w/ a fat down payment, there are deals out there for the taking!

I briefly talked to Cobound about new gladiators because there are max tow gladiators for under 40k on the lots here. Then I came to my senses. :lol:

:lol: Dude, I don't normally lose someone, as soon as they talk to me they go buy...you're an outlier :roflmao:

Think of all the free time you'd have w/o having to work on your old stuff ;)

[xj_man_646]

Compared to average income, still too much.

I have a feeling that vehicle price increases are going to level back off as interest rates for them are the highest in 30 years and triple what they were 10 years ago.

Zero down, zero percent is gone for a long long time.

Is it though?

Average income in 1989, based on my quick and dirty research was 21k. YJ pricing was approximately 43% of that.

Average income in 2022 was 75k. JL 2 door pricing of 32k is 43% of that.

:dunno:

Vehicle prices aren't high because interest rates were low. Vehicle prices went to the moon when the OEMs couldn't supply the demand for them. As far as I've been able to tell, the demand side of things hasn't really changed much. My dad purchased a 2020 Ford Raptor in 2019 for 53k and sold it in 2020 or 2021 (can't recall exactly because COVID also ruined my sense of time recollection), back to the same dealership, for 70k, due to the demand and lack of supply.

I've seen several offerings of 0% financing on trucks, as recently as last week.

[KIAKillerXJ]

My boss just got a 392 with 5k miles.. 85k . INSANE

[Cobound]

That's actually a killer deal, in this market and for what they were going for just 6-10 months ago - if you have the money :p

Hell, 1-2 years ago you could only get them via custom builds, over $100k. Factory warranty, I'd been all over one if I hadn't sold mine and bought a cabin :lol:

I'm in love w/ my diesel tho, not sure I'd go back to a Hemi now that I get the power AND 20+ mpg :rock:

Never say never tho ;)

Guy down the road drives a 392 JL and his wife has a Rubicon JL...funny, no way I'd have both same vehicles, but some people just want what they want :roflmao: