Project: Not a Project

[bbaCJ8]

:james:

Making a thread just for you Matt.

I hadn't been doing much of any wheeling for quite a while, so the 1 ton TJ was getting neglected. I was sick of tripping over it and didn't really enjoy 25 miles of highway to drive it to work. After getting my wife an EV upfit JL on 37s (which she LOVES) end of 2022, that was more than enough to scratch my itch when the occasional wheeling opportunity came up. Then late 2023 the engine in the JL sh1t the bed. Dealer replaced it under warranty, but it was during the strike so we were without it for about 10 weeks. I got to borrow company trucks and Jeeps, but still made me want a spare vehicle again. Might as well get something moderately fun and easy to work on, even though the entire point was to not have to work on it. Turns out nearly all TJs in Michigan are rotted out with or without frame repairs, or grossly overpriced. I happened upon a near stock one that lived almost its entire life in Florida, it was cheap, and it was clean. 4.0L, 5spd(sycros shot, has since been replaced), D30, D35, run of the mill TJ Sport.
https://i.imgur.com/k2hRp2g.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/TehZm5z.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/jftX6LN.jpeg

It needed some basic work, maintenance, upkeep, and unfukkering the previous owners' BS, but that was all little stuff. Tires were dryrotted, suspension was super squishy, and I quickly got sick of feeling like I was dragging my asss on the ground. So cheap lift and cheap skinny 33s happened.
https://i.imgur.com/MDzwDLD.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/czIbnOA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/5FBG0bB.jpeg
I was happy, besides the godawful 3.07 axle gears. Figured I'd keep my eye out for a set of take-out 4.10 axles from a 4 banger.

Then we went to Windrock last summer.
No big deal, right? Took my wife's JL on 37s along with a handful of AEV-owned Jeeps, had a blast, didn't struggle, didn't get stuck, didn't damage anything besides some scrapes on the wheels. I still felt bad beating it up, worrying about body damage, and just wheeling something I cared about. Then my buddy who had bought my TJ was parting out an XJ with an HP30 with 4.10s and TruTrac, 8.8 with 4.10s and Detroit and the gears started turning....

I needed a bracket kit for the 8.8 so opted for the Artec truss. Then since I'm an idiot, decided I might as well truss and gusset the HP30 while it was out. So I got all that stuff, new steering and wear items, decided to build adjustable LCAs, etc, etc. Because I'm an idiot.

Started stripping down the HP30 only to discover that it was fairly bent. Picked up another for $100 but had to swap the gears and stuff over, which is something I don't enjoy and was trying to avoid. But I'm an idiot, so here we are. At least I got rid of the sh1tty cast CAD housing in the process, the axle already had a 1 piece shaft but I was worried about the weak link even with the truss....turns out it was a reasonable concern.
Didn't get a final pic of the gears, but had this one when it was 1 iteration away from dialed. Good enough for used gears in a front axle.
https://i.imgur.com/zzxozqK.jpeg
I didn't have a case spreader, so redneck ingenuity FTW
https://i.imgur.com/bCUhTqu.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/2wq4XQ1.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/JcJajcW.jpeg

I took my sweet asss time welding, but the paper thin housing still got 1/8-3/16" of bow from all the heat. Would've been fine, but figured I might as well get it spot on before I put it together. Back to the redneck ingenuity.
https://i.imgur.com/b1uaLQp.jpeg

Adorable lil LCAs
https://i.imgur.com/4AM7tB1.jpeg

Front end is done and all set.
https://i.imgur.com/FOrgXvV.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/tC1IdTV.jpeg

I never liked the skinny 33s and a knew I'd trash the 17s in the rocks, so I'd been looking for cheap 33s for months. They didn't seem to exist. Tons of 35s and 37s out there, but trying like hell to avoid going down that rabbit hole. 4.10s will finally make it drive right, and 33s are about the max for a TJ to still feel like a fun little go cart without going full wheeling rig. Finally came across a smoking deal on 33x12.5s with 0 miles that had been sitting under a CJ7 project for a few years. Picked up some steelies and mounted em up.
https://i.imgur.com/SStDZmO.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/lQmKszy.jpeg

Oh yeah, did I mention that we're going to Windrock the first weekend of April, but I didn't start any of this until late February? Because I'm an idiot. Got the SYE installed this weekend, ripped out the D35, mocked up the 8.8 yesterday, slow welded it today.
https://i.imgur.com/yuB86em.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/JYuC4Qy.jpeg
Tomorrow night I'll build out the hard lines for it, tack on the retainer brackets for the brake lines, and it'll be ready for paint.

Then I'm just onto reassembly, torque checks, clearance checks, little BS, and throw a winch on it.

I also no longer trusted my 7k car hauler for a long trip. I bought it 18 years ago and it was old then, and it needed lots of time and new parts. A friend bought it for a fair price and I grabbed a brand new used 2019 18ft 14k equipment trailer, because overkill>underkill. I'll never phase it with the Jeep, but I haul firewood and crap too so might as well go big. The tow rig won't care about the extra 1000lb. Need to give that a quick once over and check/grease bearings before the trip too.
https://i.imgur.com/YdfdoTK.jpeg

[6DoF]

yeah! now this is some proper getting back to the real stuff :jeepin: :us:

don't lie, i bet you almost had fun doing it too

[6DoF]

i have been trying to find some used skinny 33's around here for the XJ and same issue ... 35's n 37s, but any 33s are a premium.

[bbaCJ8]

yeah! now this is some proper getting back to the real stuff :jeepin: :us:

don't lie, i bet you almost had fun doing it too
Almost. I'm still a busy body so having things to do is never bad, but I no longer enjoy all the cutting/grinding/welding, or really just working on vehicles in general. It's a means to an end, I still enjoy their use as much as ever but the process isn't as fun to me anymore. The sense of accomplishment is still there once it's done though. Could've done without the tight timeline, but at least it'll be done for spring/summer fun.

i have been trying to find some used skinny 33's around here for the XJ and same issue ... 35's n 37s, but any 33s are a premium.
Around here the skinny ones are super easy to come by. 285/70R17 are roughly 33x11 and are what come stock on JL/JT Rubicon. That's what I'm trying to sell..... true 33x12.5 are what I had a hard time finding.

[wrath]

I'm jealous you found the hen's teeth known as adult 33s. I never found any, but am still looking.

What made you go with the truetrac?

When I was preheating the Dana 35 to weld the truss to the housing, I decided not to. I didn't even try with the Dana 30 as it was even thinner. Braver than me!

[bbaCJ8]

I'm jealous you found the hen's teeth known as adult 33s. I never found any, but am still looking.

What made you go with the truetrac?

When I was preheating the Dana 35 to weld the truss to the housing, I decided not to. I didn't even try with the Dana 30 as it was even thinner. Braver than me!
I went with the TruTrac because that's what the axle already had ;) I don't expect to even notice it in general. I'm slightly worried about the rear Detroit and what its characteristics will be like with the 5 speed. I really don't feel like changing lanes every time I shift. If it's too bad I'll sell it and put in a factory limited slip with carbon clutches, but I hope that won't be necessary.

[wrath]

I was wondering how bad it was going to ratchet when driving like a child. SWB things seem to have enough speed difference when turning sharp and fast to cause **** to move and engage or something. Maybe it's the not-constant-velocity shafts that do it.

I think you'll get over the locker in the rear. There is a guy at work that has one in his LJ and you can definitely tell it is in there when he has the tires aired down. Clunks every gear change, I think because the tires are so high rolling resistance I think it actually starts slowing down between shifts. He was really disappointed when I told him I couldn't help him with that NVH.

I think you're going to end up with the perfect TJ.

[6DoF]

my XJ with the 30s and a rear lunchbox is a ratcheting nightmare, hopefully the 33's with a little more leverage over it are nicer.

my street wheeler ideal would be rear helical LSD, cutting brakes, and a selectable front.

[bbaCJ8]

From what I hear it's much more problematic with the lunchbox lockers than a full case Detroit, the Detroits tend to stay locked longer. Good for unloading and crap when shifting, not great for tire wear and turning radius. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

[wrath]

I have a welded Detroit in my mud truck you can try (it kept getting squirrely on slippery roads and no one wanted a Detroit for a 12 bolt so it got welded) and TCI Dave's truck still has his broken one in it to try. More throttle!

There is a guy at work that has two in his TJ and it's fine, but he has some bastard size Toyo Open Country tires that bounce like basketballs because they're overinflated for the weight. I swear it speeds up when you push in the clutch. I think the rolling resistance of the tires play a huge role in the dynamics of an automatic locker with a manual but I have no proof.

[bbaCJ8]

Eh I'll find out in the next week how good or bad it is. I've driven a near identical setup TJ (the red one I had for a while) with a welded rear diff and didn't mind it, then my 1 ton with a welded diff for 7-8 years. Staying locked unnecessarily I can live with. Sudden unlocks and unpredictable behavior when shifting are what I don't want. I'll start painting the axle tonight and reassembly starts later this week, so I'll have my answer soon enough.

[Jeepin Jason]

I could've sworn you already had a build thread started on this one, lol. Looking good though! Fully polished that Turdy! :D :lol:

I'll be curious to see what you think of the Detroit in the back of the TJ. I've got one in the rear of my XJ.

[bbaCJ8]

I could've sworn you already had a build thread started on this one, lol. Looking good though! Fully polished that Turdy! :D :lol:
Might as well do it while it's out! Didn't sleeve it or add Chromoly shafts but the rest is there.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the Detroit in the back of the TJ. I've got one in the rear of my XJ.
Well we all saw how THAT worked out for you :f2: :p

[Jeepin Jason]

:cry:

[Jeepin Jason]

Who's the front truss from? How'd you measure the amount of bow?

[MBood82]

I went with the TruTrac because that's what the axle already had ;) I don't expect to even notice it in general. I'm slightly worried about the rear Detroit and what its characteristics will be like with the 5 speed. I really don't feel like changing lanes every time I shift. If it's too bad I'll sell it and put in a factory limited slip with carbon clutches, but I hope that won't be necessary.

I've been trying to track down my clunk in my truck. On and off the gas it feels like driveline slop, and it jolts the entire truck when I put it in reverse. I have been assuming it's backlash issues and bought a dial indicator so I could pull the cover off when it comes out of storage this spring, but I did read that Detroits can effectively add backlash as well. Is it possible this is just a "detroit being a detroit" issue?

First actual vehicle I've had with a real locker, everything else has been a limited slip or open, so I'm not sure what to think.

[Jeepin Jason]

Yeah, that's just a Detroit being a Detroit. The one in my XJ behaves the exact same way. Letting off the gas then blipping it at high speeds feels like I just got rear ended, lol.

[bbaCJ8]

Who's the front truss from? How'd you measure the amount of bow?
RuffStuff, I like the construction of it and that it's lower profile which will be good for my low lift.

When I had the diff and seals out I ran a smaller diameter straight tube down the center of the axle tubes, it would feed all the way down the long side then snag on the seal lip coming into the short side. It was pretty clear based on that, and I sanity checked it with a piece of tube I had that was almost snug to the ID of the axle tubes. It bound up mid-way before I did any adjusting, then after some press work on the I beam it would pass end to end freely and the smaller bar would no longer snag the seal lip, it rode evenly along the bottom the whole way. Not as precise as using a machined rod inside the carriear bearing caps, but good enough for a dana turdy in a beater.

Yeah, that's just a Detroit being a Detroit. The one in my XJ behaves the exact same way. Letting off the gas then blipping it at high speeds feels like I just got rear ended, lol.
^what he said. The "added backlash" isn't the part I'm worried about, it's physically unlocking and shifting the vehicle sideways

[6DoF]

Is it possible this is just a "detroit being a detroit" issue?

142%

they do weird chit

[xj_man_646]

142%

they do weird chit

The first time I rode in your YJ when the rear locker unloaded under acceleration, I thought something blew up :lol:

[MBood82]

Yeah, that's just a Detroit being a Detroit. The one in my XJ behaves the exact same way. Letting off the gas then blipping it at high speeds feels like I just got rear ended, lol.


^what he said. The "added backlash" isn't the part I'm worried about, it's physically unlocking and shifting the vehicle sideways

142%

they do weird chit

That's good to now, I guess I won't spend forever trying to trace it down. It also possibly explains why going into drive it doesn't clunk but it does going into reverse. If it was purely ring gear backlash then I would expect it to be an equal opportunity bang. And it's a big bang, people regularly ask me if the truck is broken.

I do also notice sometimes when on and off the gas that it feels like it's pushing the truck sideways from the back. The rear leaf spring bushings are the only ones I haven't replaced, I've already done all of the front ones and the rear shackles, but I guess I can stop blaming them. I may still replace them, but they were going to be the hardest so I'm OK with not...

If all goes well I'm taking it to SMORR this August, I'll find out if all that weird behavior is worth it then!

[bbaCJ8]

You guys are giving me a whole lot of confidence about the Detroit being friendly....:p

[xj_man_646]

Some of the wheeling group in Western MI have started using Super Duty rear e-lockers in their wheeling applications and they seem to hold up pretty well to your average 1 ton on 40s stuff. It's too bad there aren't more OEM e-locker applications out there.

[MBood82]

You guys are giving me a whole lot of confidence about the Detroit being friendly....:p

Remember too, mine is a big heavy K5 with a three speed slush box (albeit with a shift kit) and an anemic TBI 350.

[bbaCJ8]

Remember too, mine is a big heavy K5 with a three speed slush box (albeit with a shift kit) and an anemic TBI 350.
Pretty sure a shorter, lighter, softly sprung TJ with an anemic 4.0 and a 5 speed isn't going to help any of that :james:

Whatever, I'm still gonna be driving it over mountains in 2 weeks, the rest is future Sean's problem. Screw that guy!

[bbaCJ8]

Happy reassembly day. Should be a driver again by this afternoon.
https://i.imgur.com/69IJ4YB.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/OVBDZyz.jpeg

[bbaCJ8]

Well she's together and running and driving!

Only drove it about 2 miles because we had some plans this evening, but the Detroit was almost imperceptible so I'm happy about that! Got a couple minor kinks to work out but nothing major. Minor driveline vibe is probably just a pinion angle adjustment, going to take out the 3/4" rear spacers because it's very tail high and only going to get worse with the winch, and the speedometer isn't working. Fortunately I think I found the fix for the speedo on this handy new website I've definitely never heard of: https://www.jeepin.com/features/speedogear

https://i.imgur.com/xpU6n98.webp

https://i.imgur.com/9cEEBYN.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/YLWZIoS.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/BYJy3bv.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/7YrtlFU.jpeg

[wrath]

It looks like it belongs. So when does it go up for sale?

[bbaCJ8]

It looks like it belongs. So when does it go up for sale?
Now that the wheeling bug has bit again I'm kicking myself for selling the last one, it was dialed. No plans to sell this one but for the right price everything is for sale.

[6DoF]

driveway flex!! :rock:

now it's an official jeepin project :thumbsup:

[Jeepin Jason]

The suspension and wheel/tire combo looks great.

[bbaCJ8]

Thanks. Taking the back apart tonight to ditch the spacers and adjust pinion angle, then I just need to install the winch and it'll be ready to go. Leaving for Windrock a week from tomorrow.

.....Buuuuuut Monday evening the turbo on my truck decided to stop turboing. Just when I was feeling good about the Jeep readiness the tow rig went down for the count. VGT is locked up solid at full exhaust brake, so it's not just no boost but also blocking flow. Can't get it over 20mph, rolling coal like mad, and EGTs spiking in a hurry. Towed it home and new turbo assembly will be here Friday, so looks like I've got my Friday evening project all lined up.

And yes Matt, I did upgrade while I'm at it. I kept the VGT though, I like the throttle response and exhaust brake too much to eliminate them, I don't have time to dikk with something like a 2nd gen swap or compounds, especially since getting the tunes updated is damn near impossible these days. I've got the supporting mods already, so the Fleece Cheetah should wake it up nicely. It really didn't need any more power(should already be making 1050+ lb-ft on the spicy tune, 950+ in tow/DD mode), but my excuse is even better throttle response, lower EGTs, and reduced chance of future VGT issues compared to a stock rebuild for half the price.

[6DoF]

And yes Matt, I did upgrade while I'm at it.

more spooly = more better

https://media.tenor.com/rVH0yznv-fIAAAAM/minions-woo-hoo.gif

[6DoF]

seriously though, just the lower EGT's alone while towing are a huge reliability upgrade. worth it. easier breathing can also help MPG for that DDing

[bbaCJ8]

seriously though, just the lower EGT's alone while towing are a huge reliability upgrade. worth it. easier breathing can also help MPG for that DDing
Exactly. I already have 5" turbo back exhaust so EGTs really haven't been an issue, but I can get it to 1100-1150 if I lug it up looooong grades with the camper. I've never seen it even try to bump over that, but it's still close to max of the comfort zone so I'll be glad to drop it a bit. I wouldn't have felt a need to change a thing if the stock turbo hadn't failed, but couldn't convince myself not to upgrade since it did. Fleece also opens up the tolerances for the VGT so it should be less prone to future issues as well.

[bbaCJ8]

As much as I've spent most of my life making fun of Rough Country, I have to admit that their stuff has come a long way in recent years. Most of it. This TJ is, has been, and will continue to be a low-budget spare vehicle/beater. I bought their 3.25" suspension a year and a half ago and have been really impressed with it for the price. My friends own a shop and get ~25% off Rough Country so after doing some research I went ahead and ordered their SYE, rear driveshaft, HD balljoints, and winch plate for dirt cheap. Best I can tell most of their non-suspension stuff is just relabeled from other companies. Most of it was fine, well worth what they charge......but don't buy their driveshafts.

I got the Jeep together last weekend and have been fighting a driveline vibration ever since. I adjusted pinion angle all over the place, went high until it got worse, went low till it got worse, and set it in the middle where it was least severe. It wasn't terrible, but enough to be annoying and give me mechanical sympathy for the bearings. The offset pinion on the 8.8 complicates things but still shouldn't cause this. I drove it 35 miles to work yesterday, then end of day threw it on the 4 post lift to look over and take some measurements. Pinion was where it was supposed to be, everything is tight and aligned, then I eventually found the problem.....the u-joints/yokes were out of phase. Awesome, easy fix, right? Pull the slip yoke off and re-clock the splines.
https://i.imgur.com/Z6kvyJs.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/gTT0eKT.jpeg
But noooooo, of course it's not that easy. No clocking of splines would line them up, the damn thing was welded together about 10-15 degrees off from ever being aligned at best case.

So naturally, I pulled my driveshaft off, ground down the weld, re-clocked it (fortunately there was a pretty snug press fit so it stayed well aligned), re-welded it, installed, slapped on some paint, and drove 35 miles home :lol:
https://i.imgur.com/eZP4C3t.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/xu5unWT.jpeg

It's not perfect, but it's at least 60% better than it was. Not bad for a benchtop cut/weld on a rear driveshaft. Good enough for now, I'll take it to a local driveshaft shop to get checked/balanced after my trip. The rear 8.8 flange may be a contributing factor as well since it wasn't on there when it was originally "balanced" by the sweatshop kid in China.

[6DoF]

https://media.tenor.com/MXQ0keMtU9QAAAAM/quality-quality-work.gif

[bbaCJ8]

Truck is all buttoned up. Played hooky this afternoon, ripped the truck apart, then put it back together. Most of it was pretty easy, but the motor mount and a heat shield that was riveted to it damn near doubled the length of the job. Oh well, got it done. Only drove it about 5 miles, initial reaction with new turbo was meh. Has a bit more whistle, didn't notice much difference in performance or unloaded EGTs, seems like it may have a hair more lag which I didn't want. We'll see how it does with more seat time and more importantly towing. I'm just glad it's fixed regardless.
https://i.imgur.com/fbZ9b1W.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/P1Jhuoz.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/9voCpc5.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/mSQtgDX.jpeg

[6DoF]

dang, that's decent access with the fender liner out

[bbaCJ8]

dang, that's decent access with the fender liner out
Mostly. About 90% of it was a piece of cake, the other 10% was still a pain and my hands looks and feel like they went through a meat grinder as a result.
I've still only put less than 100 miles on it since install, but it's growing on me. I don't think there's any more lag off idle, if I roll into it it definitely boosts harder. Mileage seems to be a bit better. Haven't done a full pull yet but it was no slouch before so we'll see. Once the converter locks around 45-50mph is when it really lights off and only so many places I can take advantage of that without breaking laws, because it goes from 45 to 100 in a hurry at that point. We'll see how it does Thurs towing the Jeep in the mountains, I can't imagine it'll be anything but awesome.